"Danger Close" - Best USAF 2007 Recuiting Ad

[Shay]

Don't care what anyone says....The Warthog and Spectre are just plain Bad Ass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2A90oHvHuY


Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[Randy Haskin]

I hate it when movies take something that is cool on prima facie value and cheese it up all in the name of entertainment.



I wish there was a way that you all could see how a troops-in-contact situation like that goes down in real life. A helluva lot more interesting.

Of course, Top Gun was just entertainment, too.

[muddyboots]

Randy, you remember that Chinese curse? "May you live in interesting times..."

I never found it..interesting. Always a grit your teeth kind of moment. May look like Ballet from above. But down below it's never really a "whoopie" kind of moment

[Randy Haskin]

I never found it..interesting. Always a grit your teeth kind of moment. May look like Ballet from above. But down below it's never really a "whoopie" kind of moment

Not what I mean in any way. The stress of a real-world "danger close" pass, and the radio interaction to orchestrate such a beast, is so much more interesting than that depiction, which is nowhere near accurate from either perspective.

Even a "Standby for 9-line" would have been acceptable.

The idea that a fighter could get tasked "danger close" by the AWACS, be "cleared hot" by the controller (what type of CAS was that, anyway???) without the aircraft even in the target area (much less actually in sight), and that the Hogs would simply make a straight-in run and employ guns on their first pass over the target....is complete folly.

Is nowhere close to an actual depiction of what happens.

I never meant to say it was a hoot, or exciting from my perspective. In fact, it's scary as hell from my perspective. As soon as the "dange close" words come from the JTAC's radio, my blood pressure goes up because it's now on ME to make sure that friendlies don't die.

[6trn4brn]

Hi Randy...I am sure to be slipping way off topic here, but are you back flying your Eagle yet? Forgive my ignorance also, but are you going to be able to trade your Eagle in for a Raptor anytime soon? And YES, I am green with envy of you

[mike furline]

The idea that a fighter could get tasked "danger close" by the AWACS, be "cleared hot" by the controller (what type of CAS was that, anyway???) without the aircraft even in the target area (much less actually in sight), and that the Hogs would simply make a straight-in run and employ guns on their first pass over the target....is complete folly.

Obviously you have never fought against robotic scorpions.


Regards,

[Randy Haskin]

Hi Randy...I am sure to be slipping way off topic here, but are you back flying your Eagle yet? Forgive my ignorance also, but are you going to be able to trade your Eagle in for a Raptor anytime soon? And YES, I am green with envy of you

Yes, I've been back in the F-15E for about a year, including a 5-month stint in Afghanistan this summer.

The Raptor is simply not in the cards for me. The USAF Chief of Staff decided last year that the only pilots transitioning into the Raptor will be F-15C pilots. In addition, I'm simply too old at this point of my career.

Obviously you have never fought against robotic scorpions.

Excellent point!

[Shay]

Randy

Honestly, I wasn't trying to cheap'n the CAS role by posting that clip. I have several friends in the Spec Ops community who go out there and have to rely on you guys from time to time in Hairball situations.

It would be nice to see an a good depiction of all the gears that turn in order to execute a good Close Air Support mission. From the guys on the ground to the head shed and to the pilots.

While the scene is eyecatching again like you said it is only entertainment. The overwhelming majority of military movies suffer from "Hollywoodization"

Here are a couple of clips that I hope give a more true representation from 2 different points of view.

A-10 CAS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayQ0wlQ4xlI

US and Afghan Ground forces

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVp9NsYbxBU&NR=1


Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

[CAPFlyer]

I still think this is the best example of what CAS looks like in the real world -

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CX3X1mciYwM&feature=related

[muddyboots]

I never found it..interesting. Always a grit your teeth kind of moment. May look like Ballet from above. But down below it's never really a "whoopie" kind of moment

Not what I mean in any way. The stress of a real-world "danger close" pass, and the radio interaction to orchestrate such a beast, is so much more interesting than that depiction, which is nowhere near accurate from either perspective.

Even a "Standby for 9-line" would have been acceptable.

The idea that a fighter could get tasked "danger close" by the AWACS, be "cleared hot" by the controller (what type of CAS was that, anyway???) without the aircraft even in the target area (much less actually in sight), and that the Hogs would simply make a straight-in run and employ guns on their first pass over the target....is complete folly.

Is nowhere close to an actual depiction of what happens.

I never meant to say it was a hoot, or exciting from my perspective. In fact, it's scary as heck from my perspective. As soon as the "dange close" words come from the JTAC's radio, my blood pressure goes up because it's now on ME to make sure that friendlies don't die.

Ah! I thought you meant it was a beautiful thing to watch from the sidelines. Truly high stress, all-in things often are. I can see you from your end it would be just as scary as from my end though. You might be about to kill me, after all. I though that whole sequence was pretty crappy actually. It certainly wasn't very realistic. That was actually one of my least favorite scenese in the movie. My suspension of disbelief button jammed, I guess.

[Randy Haskin]

I still think this is the best example of what CAS looks like in the real world -

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CX3X1mciYwM&feature=related

Even that is cheesed up a bit for the CAPSTONE audience. That demo sure has come a long way since I started watching it in the mid 90s...now they have that announcer, a big permanent video screen and announcers stand and bleachers. Back in the day, Range 63B was just a few temporary bleachers! Gotta love that AF money.

That video also depicts a different animal than in the Transformers video, since in the CAPSTONE video it is a FAC(A) controlling vs. a JTAC on the ground who could potentially be on the recieving end of the friendly ordnance he is calling in (in a danger close situation).

When the JTAC is keys the mic and you can hear the small arms shooting and men shouting in the background, that is a significant emotional experience for a CAS pilot.

[Bill Greenwood]

That looks like a demo that we saw just north of Nellis, back around 1990. The A-10 cannons were pretty impressive and make a funny zipping sound different than a single explosion.
As for the one with the creature, a little raw meat soaked in Zerex will take care of them, and a lot cheaper and quieter.

[muddyboots]

erm...that's actually a robot, Bill. Need something a little stronger than that

[Randy Haskin]

That looks like a demo that we saw just north of Nellis, back around 1990.

Exactly right -- the footage is from a CAPSTONE firepower demo that takes place on what used to be Range 63B (since been re-named, but I don't recall the new name) southeast of Indian Springs and northwest of Vegas out Highway 95.

Ths firepower demo is one of the USAF's pieces of the CAPSTONE course that new General officers of the US military attend:

The CAPSTONE General and Flag Officer Course was created in 1982 with participation on a voluntary basis. The Goldwaters-Nichols DoD Reorganization Act of 1986 subsequently mandated that all newly selected general and flag officers attend CAPSTONE. The course objective is to make these individuals more effective in planning and employing US forces in joint and combined operations. The CAPSTONE curriculum examines major issues affecting national security decision making, military strategy, joint/combined doctrine, interoperability, and key allied nation issues.

[muddyboots]

hey Randy, it looked like he kept missing...am I mistaken? No sparks or anything but dust flying all over the place...