DC-3 Toothpick blade VS Paddle blade
Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:46 pm
I thought that the C-47 had paddle blades . If so why did they use the tootpick blade on the DC-3? I thought the paddle blade was more efficient than the toothpick blade. I am sure someone can set me straight.
thanks in advance.
thanks in advance.
Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:26 pm
IIRC, The paddle blade was more efficient and was used on C-47's and bombers/fighters operating in military operations at higher altitudes in WW II and later.
For normal low altitude Airline operations on the DC-3, the toothpicks worked fine.
Jack Frost
For normal low altitude Airline operations on the DC-3, the toothpicks worked fine.
Jack Frost
Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:56 pm
Where is the efficiency tradeoff? ie - at what altitude do you start to prefer one to the other?
I ask as I'm sort of researching the feasibility of DC-3 ops out west here where field elevations are 4-6K & most IFR MEA are 9-12K.
Most performance charts in the old WWII manuals don't seem to differentiate between props (nor make any mention of type) & are of fairly rudimentary use (basically simplified tab data).
I ask as I'm sort of researching the feasibility of DC-3 ops out west here where field elevations are 4-6K & most IFR MEA are 9-12K.
Most performance charts in the old WWII manuals don't seem to differentiate between props (nor make any mention of type) & are of fairly rudimentary use (basically simplified tab data).
Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:27 pm
T2Ernie, I think these day you get yourself one of them Basler DC-3s and don't worry about it. It's easier to get a PT-6 overhauled and you'll have better load carrying capacity.
Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:59 pm
If you want a REAL DC-3 it will have Round engines and the best ones will be stamped Pratt and Whitney 
Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:50 am
I agree, Spookyboss, but the boy is looking to make some money. Why start him out in a hole ? He can get himself a real DC-3 after he starts turning a profit. We all know that the only aircraft that will replace a Gooney Bird is another Gooney Bird !
Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:02 am
RickH wrote:I agree, Spookyboss, but the boy is looking to make some money. Why start him out in a hole ? He can get himself a real DC-3 after he starts turning a profit. We all know that the only aircraft that will replace a Gooney Bird is another Gooney Bird !
HaHa - yes, to really make money, you need a great niche, or a Basler. Trick is, buy-in for a proper, classic, round-engine DC-3 is more realistic for me. Baslers start at $4.5M & I just don't have that lying about.
In a perfect world, I'd have one of each.
I'll be operating a classic. I don't have to get rich, it just has to pay its own way. Still a few years out from this possible venture, so really just researching for the last few months...
Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:44 pm
If you want tips about running DC-3s, talk to the guys at Desert Air Cargo up in Anchorage or J.R. Rhodes in Columbus, IN.
They operate round-engined DC-3s in charter operations, so they'd be a good source for costs and such. I would say to also talk to Five Star Air Cargo, but they operate in an odd local (Puerto Rico & the Carribean) so their costs aren't nearly as representative as they have to deal with the salty air and abnormally high fuel costs.
They operate round-engined DC-3s in charter operations, so they'd be a good source for costs and such. I would say to also talk to Five Star Air Cargo, but they operate in an odd local (Puerto Rico & the Carribean) so their costs aren't nearly as representative as they have to deal with the salty air and abnormally high fuel costs.
Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:43 pm
CAPFlyer wrote:If you want tips about running DC-3s, talk to the guys at Desert Air Cargo up in Anchorage or J.R. Rhodes in Columbus, IN.
They operate round-engined DC-3s in charter operations, so they'd be a good source for costs and such. I would say to also talk to Five Star Air Cargo, but they operate in an odd local (Puerto Rico & the Carribean) so their costs aren't nearly as representative as they have to deal with the salty air and abnormally high fuel costs.
Have been chatting with a few operators. Haven't spoken directly with Rhodes, but thought they were running DC-3TP
Carribean would be decent market, but I don't want to operate there.
I think I have a good handle on basic costs, trying to dig down into the details & differences between various tidbits like toothpic vs paddle props...
Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:03 pm
T2 Ernie wrote:I'll be operating a classic. I don't have to get rich, it just has to pay its own way.
That is 'getting rich' in aviation.
Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:06 pm
T2 Ernie wrote:Have been chatting with a few operators. Haven't spoken directly with Rhodes, but thought they were running DC-3TP
Carribean would be decent market, but I don't want to operate there.
I think I have a good handle on basic costs, trying to dig down into the details & differences between various tidbits like toothpic vs paddle props...
The guys at Rhodes still fly 1 round-engined DC-3. I would talk to DAC about the difference between props. If anyone would know, it'd be them as their staff has been operating DC-3s for 20+ years and I know they used to have planes with both types of blades, so they may be able to tell you. The reason I suggested Rhodes is that they should still have a couple of airframes and parts and may be able to work out a deal with you on them. I know of another airframe in Ohio that hasn't flown for several years, but shouldn't take too much to get flying.
As your best market in the near term is probably going to be Mexico, you may be better off getting the paddle blades, but also you might want to contact Basler and see if they have any that can be overhauled or acquired. If not, it may be a mute point as you'd better have a spare set of blades or two.
Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:36 am
That is 'getting rich' in aviation.
Yep.
Thanks for the leads, CAPFlyer. As mentioned, it's a little ways off. The trick is finding the niche. Mexico is probably lucrative (I believe Nord operate Super DC-3 into Mexico), but brings on all kinds of admin-type headaches with Customs, TSA, etc. Something a start-up op probably would struggle with.
Having crunched some reasonably accurate numbers, I think I know what I need to bill each week/month/year to be where I want to be, and it's probably a lower number than you'd guess...
Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:09 am
Good luck (your gunna...)
Certainly there are pleasure flying DC-3 operations in Australia in Sydney and Melbourne (Shortstop Jet Charter does a weekly 'dinner flight' over Melbourne and I hear them drone over - best noise of the week) and several over the years in the UK. Some have gone there, but the fact they survived at all (with the greater costs and red tape in the UK than the US) indicates it is possible.
Keep us posted!
Certainly there are pleasure flying DC-3 operations in Australia in Sydney and Melbourne (Shortstop Jet Charter does a weekly 'dinner flight' over Melbourne and I hear them drone over - best noise of the week) and several over the years in the UK. Some have gone there, but the fact they survived at all (with the greater costs and red tape in the UK than the US) indicates it is possible.
Keep us posted!
Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:08 pm
For what it's worth... I was at the Burlington, NC airport about 2 years ago. IN the storage hangar was two complete DC-3 propeller assemblies, paddle blades. STored there by the on site prop overhaul shop. The story I was told (not from the prop shop people) was that they were overhauled and the owner never paid for them. One other person said they were props for a Caribou. Maybe they are the same thing.?