How much of a warbird is original?

[Jeff Hunt]

Just a question. On average, how much of a flyable warbird is original factory built equipment. Would there be more original equipment on a bomber vs. a fighter. I'm guessing that there is not too much original stuff other than maybe the number plate.

Jeff

[mlenoch]

Except for the radios,tires and fuel, mine is 100% original. During the current inspection it was determined that the wings have not been removed since October 1944....its manufacture date.
VL

[P51Mstg]

Yeah Vlado, your Mustang is one of about 3 that have never been wrecked, mashed, or otherwise destroyed by pilots who's skill level was not up to par.

Fortuantely you airplane belongs to you and from what I can see about how you fly, it will probably stay that way too, at least during your lifetime.

You have a very special bird.....

Mark H

[b29flteng]

My quess is that most of the fighters have been rebuilt (see previous post) many times. The transports have likely been modified many times. most of the bombers have been modified too. The L-birds have been rebuilt many times due to the wood and fabric, and the trainers I would guess have been rebuilt many times due to there abuse. All in all, I would guess not many have the original equipment.

[mustanglover]

Yeah Vlado, your Mustang is one of about 3 that have never been wrecked, mashed, or otherwise destroyed by pilots who's skill level was not up to par.

Fortuantely you airplane belongs to you and from what I can see about how you fly, it will probably stay that way too, at least during your lifetime.

You have a very special bird.....

Mark H

I would guess your number is probably on the low side.

Ours is about like Vlado's, never wrecked, mashed or otherwise destroyed.

[bdk]

I think this really depends. By "original factory built" do you mean those parts that the aircraft were delivered with?

Some aircraft have seen extensive civilian use like fire bombing and pesticide spraying. These aircraft have been stripped of much equipment for use in their civilian role. Later they get restored and the search for that original equipment is a large part of the restoration effort.

Others have led more sheltered lives and have never been apart or have been restored with great care to maintain originality.

Many of the fighters have been "sporterized" to make them into civilian hot rods with full IFR equipemnt installed, air conditioning and leather interior or have been reskinned for that perfect polish job.

Of course you have wrecked parts that have been rebuilt and the reconstructions (the true "data plate" rebuilds) where original parts were used mostly as patterns due to corrosion or other damage.

And don't forget that original military aircraft typically go through depot overhauls or modification programs somtimes more than once throughout their service lives.

[Cvairwerks]

Just to really muddy the waters on this, I know of aircraft that haven't even made it off the production floor with the originally installed parts or equipment. Things happen and aircraft far down the production line can be canibalized when there is a parts shortage or something else causes the wholesale changout of equipment or parts.
Even with all the testing that gets done on parts and equipment, with the complexity of some of it these days, failures for unknown reasons do still occur. Sometimes during delivery there might be a glitch in some box and it's more expedient to simply change it out to return the aircraft to flight rather than go through the componet diagnostic process to see about fixing while still onboard.

If it moves or passes electrons, at some point it will break, with the preference that it happens at the end of it's useful life.

[Bill Greenwood]

If you exclude modern add on items like radios, oil filters, gear back up system, chutes, helmets, headsets, battery, preheat and preoil; my plane is mostly factory original type parts. By that I mean the main parts were Spitfire and Rolls Royce built, rather than by a modern restorer. My engine is not the original, it is a 76 rather than a 70, but is a Rolls, not an Allison or one of those chubby ones. Other wear items of course have been replaced, tires, paint,etc. The prop blades are Hoffman, but are the same material and specs as Dowty. Mine came out of the factory as a flying single seat MKIX and was factory converted to a dual control 2 cockpit MKIX, so it has not been built up from aftermarket parts. The canopies are American aftermarket replacements t match original.

[Neal Nurmi]

When Steve Hinton was showing me around the lovely "Glacier Girl" at Reno this year he mentioned that this airplane is probably the only WWII Warbird flying anywhere with the original guns as originally installed at the factory!


These drawings were presumably made on breaks during the original construction of the airplane! Anybody have any idea what the scroll might be all about?

[Mike]

Except for the radios,tires and fuel, mine is 100% original. During the current inspection it was determined that the wings have not been removed since October 1944....its manufacture date.
VL

Interesting. I would have thought that it would have been dismantled as part of the civilianization process it went through at Cavalier / Trans Florida?

[Randy Haskin]

Except for the radios,tires and fuel, mine is 100% original. During the current inspection it was determined that the wings have not been removed since October 1944....its manufacture date.
VL

Interesting. I would have thought that it would have been dismantled as part of the civilianization process it went through at Cavalier / Trans Florida?

Vlado -

Curious as to what you saw during the inspection that showed the wings had never been off the fuse?

Although the 337 for the Trans-Florida work on your airplane (the December 1962 one) doesn't explicitly say it, anecdotal evidence from the Lindsays and others say that Cavaliers built in that era would have been completely disassembled prior to being built-up.

On the other hand, the fact that your airplane was built as a "Cavalier 750" means that no mods to the wing tanks were made...so perhaps the wing did not need to come off for the Cav modification.

Regardless, numerous other items were changed during the mod to Cavalier 750.

[RickH]

The Collings Foundation TA-4 is orignal. If,...you don't count that the Navy changed the wing out with an M model wing during its last Navy SDLM. The nose was rebuilt by a Douglas field team when it was 6 months old, took them 9 months to fix it. The logs only say that it suffered damage while taxiing.

My point is, that, is it factory original, no. But it is service original. Probably the most anyone could reasonably hope for in a historic aircraft. Glacier Girl and a few others are a different case, a virtual time capsule, at least for much of it. Of course even GG has a bunch of non Lockheed sheetmetal all over her.

[mustangdriver]

According to Bob Cardin, Glacier Girl is 80% original.

[mgeorge51]

Worry Bird 44-73287 is all original.

Never seriously damaged where big parts were replaced.
Minor gear mis hap where a wing tip was replaced nothing else.

I replaced the over the wing fairings two years ago but kept the one with serial numbers on them in storage.

A lot of current Mustangs at least do not have the same wing that they left the factory with.

[mlenoch]

Randy, yes the evidence available says it likely was never apart for the Cavalier mods. The only Cavalier items on the bird at all, were the cockpit naugahyde (sp) additions. (Are these features now a collectable item?) Haven't we discussed the possible scenario where the owner at the time, Howard Olsen of Midland TX, likely bought a field kit to install the Cavalier items?
Also, according to Mike VadeBonCouer, the wing interior shows original orange dyed bolts, unpainted rivit and bolts as per the factory, Alcoa water marks and inspector's blue china marks. These would have been likely painted over during a repair, etc. This leads one to believe the wing was never repaired and more likely never removed from the airframe.
VL