Mars and 747 Fire Bombers

[Glen]

Greetings
I was reading a few postings on the efforts of fighting the fires that are burning up everything out in Cal As one Wixer reported that the Mars Flying Boats are suppose to be inbound tommorow to help batte the blaze ! Dose anybody know if their are any 747's Fire bombers on sight or inbound ? If so it would be something to see these two huge Giants duke it out togother on the fire Sadd that this is going on My thoughts gose out to all the people that have been miss placed and to all the Brave ground crews and the Air crews that are in the heat of it !

[RickH]

I read where the Evergreen 747 was grounded due to not getting certified, so Evergreen pulled the plug on the project.

[Warbird Kid]

I hope there was a good reason. I thought I saw the 747 and its excellent potential to aide the smaller aging fire bomber community. Especially when we needed them. But sadly I guess its not to be.

I’ve seen some info and prototype models of A-10's being utilized for such a task. Sporting a huge tank under its fuselage. In the usual “fire bomber” red, yellow, and white.

[RickH]

The Fire Hog concept goes back to before Desert Storm I. The concept was floated ( no pun intended ) when it was expected that the fighter mafia was going to send the A-10s to AMARC and ouut of the inventory. The State Dept people at Patrick AFB tried to upgrade their OV-10 sprayer program by testing the A-10. The airflow around the airframe caused the spray to flame out the engines. Desert Storm started and the USAF found it had a plane that they could no longer ignore.

[BLR]

B.C. water bomber leaves for California fires

Sandra McCulloch
CanWest News Service; Victoria Times Colonist


Wednesday, October 24, 2007


VICTORIA - A Martin Mars water bomber was expected to leave B.C. at dawn today for San Diego, where weary U.S. crews are battling wildfires that so far have burned more than 750 homes and forced the evacuation of more than half a million residents.

The water bomber's owner, Wayne Coulson, flew with 10 employees to San Diego on Tuesday and will meet up with the aircraft as it arrives.

"We're really grateful to have it here," said Maurice Luque, spokesman of the San Diego fire department.

The fires, fuelled by drought and fanned by the dry Santa Ana winds, are not contained but the winds lessened somewhat on Tuesday.

"It would have been so wonderful to have had the Mars here a day or so ago when the fire first broke out," said Luque, adding that resources, personnel and equipment have been sent from Northern California to help out.

The fires could be larger than the ones that devastated the San Diego region in 2003, said Luque: "We thought we saw the last of fires of that magnitude but we definitely have that here."

Coulson Group had been anticipating a call for the water bomber and plans were in place to send it south.

"I've been down with San Diego fire department four times in the last five weeks working ... on placing the Mars down there for the Santa Anas," said Coulson on Tuesday. "We're ahead of the game, we've flown into a bunch of the water reservoirs down there so we have a sense of where we're going to go."

A tractor-trailer used for specialized maintenance and a fuel truck left for San Diego Monday.

This isn't the first time a Coulson-owned aircraft has fought wildfires in Southern California. A firefighting helicopter worked in the Los Angeles basin for five years.

"It's a natural fit for us," said Coulson. "We know everybody, we know what we're going into and everyone knows us. We're pretty pleased."

The water bomber will likely be put to work covering homes and structures with a protective covering called Thermo-Gel, which consists of 98 per cent water and a super-absorbent polymer. Fighting the fires right now is just too difficult, said Coulson.

"There's not a hell of a lot you can do with a 60-mph wind and fire coming at you other than just gelling homes to protect as many as you can," he said.

Victoria Times Colonist

© CanWest News Service 2007

[CAPFlyer]

Wow. I'm surprised the Mars is able to come south of the border. The USFS decision that grounded all of the other vintage bombers also had a clause that effectively prevented any of the Canadian bombers from coming south as well. I hope this means someone found a way around the rules and maybe we can get the Mars and some of the Conair Convairs down here to help out.

[Warbird Kid]

Seems like the Mars Boats are still needed. No retirement for them.


Maybe we'll see them continue to do what they seem to do best!

[JDK]

Wow. I'm surprised the Mars is able to come south of the border. The USFS decision that grounded all of the other vintage bombers also had a clause that effectively prevented any of the Canadian bombers from coming south as well. I hope this means someone found a way around the rules and maybe we can get the Mars and some of the Conair Convairs down here to help out.

From my discussions with the Flying Tankers (as was) team, the USFS decision didn't affect them, only US operators, and they've always been available for US ops if asked for. One Mars was down doing demos in the 1990s in California, before the fusses.

You may be right specifically regarding a clause; as I say FT didn't see an issue. Someone would have some hard peddling to excuse a Mars prohibition right now.

It's also worth noting that at least part of the fixed-wing fire fighters in Cal at the moment are from Quebec, CL-215s.

Of course there were problems (I was told in 2002) explaining to the FAA that a fire 'bomber' didn't actually carry 'bombs' but was a friendly bear...

Regards,

[CAPFlyer]

Yeah, that sounds like some of the FAA Reps I've run into over the years. Try to talk to them about any airplane that isn't seen 50 times a day (or more) at any major airport and you have to first explain what the airplane looks like, what it can do, and answer 20 other questions before you can actually get to what you want to talk about.

It's a problem with a lot of industries though. There's always inspectors and regulatory representatives that don't really know much about the non-mainstream segments of the industries.

[JDK]

There's always inspectors and regulatory representatives that don't really know much about the non-mainstream segments of the industries.

They're just not trying. I know more about the Martin Mars than the 737.

[T2 Ernie]

Yeah, that sounds like some of the FAA Reps I've run into over the years. Try to talk to them about any airplane that isn't seen 50 times a day (or more) at any major airport and you have to first explain what the airplane looks like, what it can do, and answer 20 other questions before you can actually get to what you want to talk about.

It's a problem with a lot of industries though. There's always inspectors and regulatory representatives that don't really know much about the non-mainstream segments of the industries.

I was at the local FSDO updating my type cert & casually mentioned I was considering a 135 op w/DC-3 & the inspector told me he didn't think you could do that because it was a large aircraft!? I reminded him of a company in our state (and his jurisdiction) that was doing exactly that & he countered with something along the lines of, 'well, I don't know how they're doing it' - seriously.