P-51 free zone
Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:13 pm
It is about time that there was a P-51 free zone, Now that's got your attention hasn't it! As a professional aircraft airframe fitter who has been involved in air worthy restorations of a number of vintage aircraft including Mustangs, i am feed up with the ever increasing hoard of gumby's who fill these site with rubbish. Yes there are those who do have intelligent comments and observations to make and these are most welcome, but the the ever increasing rivet counters and hangers on are driving me crazy. These people have been banned from our restoration workshop and viewing is by pre arrangement or invitation only. We can get on with our work with out the stimulating conversation around the number of rivits in an aileron, yes it happens. If anyone knows of a registered only site where vintage aviation can be discussed on an intelligent level , please advise. May be I'll start my own.
Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:21 pm
Typical Aussie mindset! Lock yourself in your Hangar see if we care!
upside down
Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:37 pm
The bloke seems kind of grouchy, doesn't he. Perhaps standing on your head all the time does that to people.
Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:41 pm
Bill, maybe he's just grouchy cause his toilet turns the wrong way ? 
Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:50 pm
could be a drop bear whacked him on the head and he's just confused...
Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:55 pm
First - let's not start indefensibly general racist mud-slinging, thanks.
Secondly - a P-51 free zone might be nice, but hardly a big deal. Some P-51 owners, drivers and interested parties move onto more interesting types; as one of the most well known types, it surves a valuable purpose in drawing people in.
As a professional aviation journalist, on the one hand, I also have the delightful opportunity of dealing with the obsessive nature of some enthusiasts and on the other the frankly un-housetrained behaviour of some LAME and engineers. Meanwhile in my bit of the paddock sit some journos who also need significant social help.
Everyone started from a position of total ignorance and some of us are trying to progress - and no one knows it all, so it remains worthwhile to listen - with discrimination. Today's 'gumby' can well be tomorrow's assistant or employer.
The Internet's essentially 'free' that means anyone can have a play, with the result there's a lot of chaff or noise and some nuggets of good data. Just like the rest of life.
You can pay for editorially filtered data - they are called 'magazines'; some better than others, but they produce what sells; and the buyer includes (or doesn't include) YOU. Your coin (or lack of) dictates their content and survival.
Warbirds Worldwide endeavoured to be 'The Journal of the Warbird Industry'. It finally folded, after a decade of good work and fifty odd magazines. One reason it failed was the number of engineers and owners who were too tight to pay to buy it; the insulting bit was they were more than happy to read it, stealing their mate's copy, but too cheap to support the journal they've told me since was 'the best' and 'irreparable'.
There is a good magazine doing a similar job; Warbird Digest. It'll develop with your support or interest. There are other more general magazines which do a decent job, but there isn't likely to be a dedicated warbird engineer one because too many engineers are too cheap.
So, in the meantime we can filter WIX for the good stuff, or set up our own. Feel free.
Rant over.
Secondly - a P-51 free zone might be nice, but hardly a big deal. Some P-51 owners, drivers and interested parties move onto more interesting types; as one of the most well known types, it surves a valuable purpose in drawing people in.
As a professional aviation journalist, on the one hand, I also have the delightful opportunity of dealing with the obsessive nature of some enthusiasts and on the other the frankly un-housetrained behaviour of some LAME and engineers. Meanwhile in my bit of the paddock sit some journos who also need significant social help.
Everyone started from a position of total ignorance and some of us are trying to progress - and no one knows it all, so it remains worthwhile to listen - with discrimination. Today's 'gumby' can well be tomorrow's assistant or employer.
The Internet's essentially 'free' that means anyone can have a play, with the result there's a lot of chaff or noise and some nuggets of good data. Just like the rest of life.
You can pay for editorially filtered data - they are called 'magazines'; some better than others, but they produce what sells; and the buyer includes (or doesn't include) YOU. Your coin (or lack of) dictates their content and survival.
Warbirds Worldwide endeavoured to be 'The Journal of the Warbird Industry'. It finally folded, after a decade of good work and fifty odd magazines. One reason it failed was the number of engineers and owners who were too tight to pay to buy it; the insulting bit was they were more than happy to read it, stealing their mate's copy, but too cheap to support the journal they've told me since was 'the best' and 'irreparable'.
There is a good magazine doing a similar job; Warbird Digest. It'll develop with your support or interest. There are other more general magazines which do a decent job, but there isn't likely to be a dedicated warbird engineer one because too many engineers are too cheap.
So, in the meantime we can filter WIX for the good stuff, or set up our own. Feel free.
Rant over.
???
Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:18 pm
If anyone knows of a registered only site where vintage aviation can be discussed on an intelligent level , please advise.
So you show up and insult a bunch of folks then ask for help. I guess bugger off would be my response
Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:22 pm
I'd tell him where to go , Jack, but I'm busy counting rivets on the Huey. I'd count them on something else but they're all flush and hard to see !
???
Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:24 pm
Just make sure you make note all the serial numbers.
Eric likes that
Eric likes that
Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:48 pm
a P-51 free zone does sound like a decent idea, but like mentioned, our warbird community is like life and you take what you want, and try best to ignore what you don't care to see/hear.
The P-51 is probably the most popular warbird of all time. I prefer another one to it, but it is still the most popular for many reasons.
It was arguably the best airplane developed by the US during WWII (of course people's opinions may differ with that, but whatever). Being US build, and considering the population of the US, it is clearly going to be the most talked about WWII fighter too. Also, there are so many of the darn things around (compared to other warbirds) that it is what most people are most familiar with.
I for one, am a supporter of the underdog. I have an appreciation for airplanes that some people may have never even heard of. To me, the Blackburn Shark is a really nifty airplane. I've been lucky enough to have seen one. Not much of one, but heck, it was all that is left of quite an interesting airplane.
People like the P-51 because they typically know more about it than any other warbird. People like to talk about what they know. So, lots of people talk a lot about P-51's. It's to be expected. Like James said, "Everyone started from a position of total ignorance and some of us are trying to progress." Some people see the Mustang, love the Mustang, make it their life, and stick with it forever. Others, see the Mustang, love the Mustang, and move on to see what else the warbird world has to offer. I'm one of the latter. Often I would like to see more conversation on WIX about planes other than the P-51, but I don't mind, because I always seem to learn something new about P-51, even if I have moved on from it.
Funny enough, lately my fascination has gotten me interested in the P-39 and the A-20. Those aren't the warbirds people usually think of first, which I suppose makes them underdogs. I like that. I also like how they both have histories involving British Columbia, and the Lend-Lease program, that again, isn't the most well known story of WWII.
My two cents.
Cheers,
David
The P-51 is probably the most popular warbird of all time. I prefer another one to it, but it is still the most popular for many reasons.
It was arguably the best airplane developed by the US during WWII (of course people's opinions may differ with that, but whatever). Being US build, and considering the population of the US, it is clearly going to be the most talked about WWII fighter too. Also, there are so many of the darn things around (compared to other warbirds) that it is what most people are most familiar with.
I for one, am a supporter of the underdog. I have an appreciation for airplanes that some people may have never even heard of. To me, the Blackburn Shark is a really nifty airplane. I've been lucky enough to have seen one. Not much of one, but heck, it was all that is left of quite an interesting airplane.
People like the P-51 because they typically know more about it than any other warbird. People like to talk about what they know. So, lots of people talk a lot about P-51's. It's to be expected. Like James said, "Everyone started from a position of total ignorance and some of us are trying to progress." Some people see the Mustang, love the Mustang, make it their life, and stick with it forever. Others, see the Mustang, love the Mustang, and move on to see what else the warbird world has to offer. I'm one of the latter. Often I would like to see more conversation on WIX about planes other than the P-51, but I don't mind, because I always seem to learn something new about P-51, even if I have moved on from it.
Funny enough, lately my fascination has gotten me interested in the P-39 and the A-20. Those aren't the warbirds people usually think of first, which I suppose makes them underdogs. I like that. I also like how they both have histories involving British Columbia, and the Lend-Lease program, that again, isn't the most well known story of WWII.
My two cents.
Cheers,
David
Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:55 pm
The P-51 was my "gateway warbird". It got me hooked, and I found other warbirds that I liked better. For clean beautiful lines, the Mustang is one of the prettiest. It's also one of the most recognized of WWII fighters.
But I find it ridiculous to have a site on warbirds, but leave one out. Read what you like, and ignore the rest. And while you're at it, lighten up.
But I find it ridiculous to have a site on warbirds, but leave one out. Read what you like, and ignore the rest. And while you're at it, lighten up.
Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:16 pm
What everybody else said! 
Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:22 pm
JDK wrote:First - let's not start indefensibly general racist mud-slinging, thanks.
Racist? Don't know about you but I haven't read any "racist" comments in this thread. Unless you consider the comments of someone who's obviously predjudiced against the Mustang
I agree with you regarding WW. It was the best; and I had two subscriptions.
And Davey, I agree with you regarding the P-39 and etc. As you stated, they have quite a bit of history in BC, Yukon and Alaska. Wish I had been the one to salvage the Carpenter Lake P-39...
Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:25 pm
'bit cranky eh?
Lighten up, Dude! How about you start that Mustang Free Zone dot com site and then send us an update of how that's going for you?
This forum is for all warbird folks. I am partial to the P47 Razorback but I am not asking others to change their preferences to match mine.
Take another nap and sleep it off, then, if you have some contribution, c'mon back. Otherwise, as my old mates from UK used to tell me, POHL. (piss off hairy leggs)
Lighten up, Dude! How about you start that Mustang Free Zone dot com site and then send us an update of how that's going for you?
This forum is for all warbird folks. I am partial to the P47 Razorback but I am not asking others to change their preferences to match mine.
Take another nap and sleep it off, then, if you have some contribution, c'mon back. Otherwise, as my old mates from UK used to tell me, POHL. (piss off hairy leggs)
Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:34 pm
Hey Hal,
Yeah, I'm interested to learn more about Gary Larkins P-39 that he pulled out of Carpenter Lake. There appears to be a scandal that I heard about regarding it. I'm interested to know how the restoration is going and to see any pictures from the recovery and restoration.
What's also strange is how the airplane got to Carpenter Lake in the first place. It's nowhere near the usual ALSIB route. Do you or anyone know how the plane ended up here?
Cheers,
David
Yeah, I'm interested to learn more about Gary Larkins P-39 that he pulled out of Carpenter Lake. There appears to be a scandal that I heard about regarding it. I'm interested to know how the restoration is going and to see any pictures from the recovery and restoration.
What's also strange is how the airplane got to Carpenter Lake in the first place. It's nowhere near the usual ALSIB route. Do you or anyone know how the plane ended up here?
Cheers,
David