Squadron of P-51's

[Paul Krumrei]

Last edited by Paul Krumrei on Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

[bdk]

Notice that the P-51B/C in the first photo has the .50s tilted at a 45 degree angle in the wing. That means that the cartridges have to make a 135 degree turn to feed into the guns. The D-model wing was thicker so they were able to put the guns upright and feed the cartridges straight in. That made the guns less prone to jamming I understand.

The second photo shows a Merlin engined P-40.

Cool photos!

[strafer]

Great pics of the 332nd FG, thanks for posting!
Regards, Filip

[visaliaaviation]

Great photos. thanks for the views, as always!

Two notes:

1. Isn't it about time we stopped prefacing the 332 FS with titles such as "african-american"? Most aviation buffs already know about the "Red Tails". Can't we just say 332nd? Do we preface the the 56th FG with "white american" combat group?

2. The angled gun installation caused conciderable jambing problems in P-51B/C's in high G manouvres. An electric motor boost drive was installed in the field to help eleviate this problem.

[Paul Krumrei]

1. Isn't it about time we stopped prefacing the 332 FS with titles such as "african-american"? Most aviation buffs already know about the "Red Tails". Can't we just say 332nd? Do we preface the the 56th FG with "white american" combat group?

Even though times have changed, history can't. The title on the picture is what is acurate for the time period, therefor, I put down what was related to the time period and what the historical photo stated.

Example of the red tails, is they are known historically as an all african-american squadron. It totally puts them out in the open as a historically significate figure in a period of time in which in fact, segregation was a part of life.

In no way shape or form, is the words African-American a degrading or demeaning phrase, depicting that time.

Even thought, I am sure that they were not called African-American squadrons to the rest of the world, as a matter of fact most of the generals and colonels called it the "Nigger" squadron.

Now, I know using that sort of language is demeaning and in no way shape or form do I use that term in any negative manner.

It is what it is, an African-American squadron, in which I would assume, if I were in the shoes of those pilots, I would be proud to be stuck out in the public eye as one of the few African-Americans who over took diversity and became great pilots.

[Mudge]

Sorry Paul, gotta' disagree with you. "Back then" they were either "Negro" or "Colored". If I'm not mistaken, the term "African-American" was thought up by the PC crowd, long after WWII.
I grew up during WWII and can honestly say I never heard the term "African-American" used.
I'd be willing to bet that you won't find anything from that period (WWII and later through the late '50s and maybe early '60s) that uses the term "African-American".

Mudge the geezer

[Paul Krumrei]

Again, I just put down what was on the picture. Black, Negro, Colored, whatever the term was, that was listed on the picture in old hand writing.

Not debating this, just trying to explain why I put that down.


Cheers

[Bill Greenwood]

How do you view people of different races, or cultures or countries? If you view them as equals, then you don't have to come up with a new term every few years to describe them. When I was growing up in Texas I clearly remember separate restrooms at the Texaco station labled "Colored". Polite adults referred to them that way or as Negros. It would might be considered impolite now to refer to someone as a colored person, but it is proper to call them people of color. The distinction is pretty silly. I was at Midland when those sniper killings were going on in Virginia, and of coure we assumed it was racism( turned out to be just hate, period) and the Black air force guy used the "people of color phrase". To me, it sounds silly and awkwark to call people" Afican Americans". Maybe acurate for Brad and Angelina, but most other Americans of any color haven't been anywhere near Africa. I think someone has put a scam on Black people to think of themselves as inferior so that every few years they have to come up with a new term to try to hide behind. There wasn't anything wrong with Dr. King either as a Negro or a Black man.

Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[John Beyl]

The D-model wing was thicker


Cool photos!

I do not believe this is a true statement. There were only minor differences between the B/C to D wing with most of the differences in the placement of the internal ribs and stringers. Unless you pay attention to details like rivet lines, aside from the gun ports, the crank in the the wings leading edge in front of the gear wells and the gear doors are about the only outward visual identifiers between the wings.

John

Last edited by John Beyl on Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Bill Greenwood]

I was also under the impression at first that the D had a thicker more rounded wing. I think i may have gotten this from Jeff Ethel's video on flying the B model, that the B had a sharper stall. However, I was at Fantasy of Flight looking at Kermit's plane and he specifically said the airfoil was the same for B/C as the D.

[John Beyl]

I was also under the impression at first that the D had a thicker more rounded wing. I think i may have gotten this from Jeff Ethel's video on flying the B model, that the B had a sharper stall. However, I was at Fantasy of Flight looking at Kermit's plane and he specifically said the airfoil was the same for B/C as the D.

Bill,

As far as I know it is the same airfoil. Since none of the outer dimensions of the wing changed, it would be impossible to change it's thickness and not change the airfoil. I'm also pretty sure it uses the same spar's as the D model (with only minor changes) so that pretty well tells the story. If I'm wrong I'll buy you a beer BDK!

John

[Bluedharma]

Great Pictures! Do you have any more?


Lt Col James Harvey III
I had the honor to shake this man hand!
One of the highlights for me at the Broomfield,CO open house.
The trials this gentleman went through were amazing (both during and after the WW2).
I think he lives somewhere in Denver area (Colorado/United States).
http://www.colorado-redtails.com/interviews.html

[muddyboots]

1. Isn't it about time we stopped prefacing the 332 FS with titles such as "african-american"? Most aviation buffs already know about the "Red Tails". Can't we just say 332nd? Do we preface the the 56th FG with "white american" combat group?

the fact that they had to fight racism, apathy and stupidity before they could ever fight the Germans makes it important. Otherwisse they would be just another fighter group to the vast majority of Americans. Unlike you and I, most people really don't know about these guys. So yeah, I ill continue to use the term African American to describe them.If you can name one white american fighter group whose service was reisisted becaus ethey were white, which almost didn't get into combat, and which was the sole group of its race to represent it's race on the front, you can go ahead and use white american and I won't laugh at you for being a racist LoL

[Rogue]

If I'm not mistaken, the term "African-American" was thought up by the PC crowd.

1997

Believe it or not, all africans are not black.

[Paul Krumrei]

1. Isn't it about time we stopped prefacing the 332 FS with titles such as "african-american"? Most aviation buffs already know about the "Red Tails". Can't we just say 332nd? Do we preface the the 56th FG with "white american" combat group?

the fact that they had to fight racism, apathy and stupidity before they could ever fight the Germans makes it important. Otherwisse they would be just another fighter group to the vast majority of Americans. Unlike you and I, most people really don't know about these guys. So yeah, I ill continue to use the term African American to describe them.If you can name one white american fighter group whose service was reisisted becaus ethey were white, which almost didn't get into combat, and which was the sole group of its race to represent it's race on the front, you can go ahead and use white american and I won't laugh at you for being a racist LoL

Actually, Muddy, I prefer German-American.

LOL!