Bill G - Spitfire ?

[hahnej]

I got a nice Spitfire book from Booksamillion last week and it has some pictures of the Grace 2-seat Spitfire in it. The canopy configuration is different than yours; with a cut-down turtledeck behind the front pilot and in-line canopies. Is this how yours was originally or was yours always different?

[Jack Cook]

Bill's Spit is original. The low back 2 seaters were a late 80s mod
(correct me if i'm wrong) originally done by Charles Church or possibly Nick Grace.

[Matt Gunsch]

Bill's Spit has the original canopy configuration on it. The cut downs are a mod.

[Bluedharma]

A long time back, didn't Bill's spitfire have the 2nd canopy removed for awhile? (just covered over?)

Bill, when the canopy was put back, was there any modifications to the 2nd position?



Sorry Bill, after a little digging... I found the answer.
single seat thread:
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=125822&highlight=#125822

Last edited by Bluedharma on Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Christer]

I believe that the russians were first to have two low canopies on a few wartime or post war conversions. The front cockpit was not changed (moved forwards) and the second added behind with a standard canopy. Nick Grace was second with ML407 which was modified during rebuild in the early eighties.

Christer

[Bill Greenwood]

You guys are good on history. My plane is the factory original configuration, with the larger rear canopy. The rear seating position is not raised, but still has the same 5 position vertical adjustment as the front. I know the higher canopy spoils the lines, but I just prefer vintage planes to be pretty much original. I have seen a photo of a model that was supposed to be a Russian converted 2nd cockpit, never saw a real one. When Nick Grace rebuilt one of the other Irish 2 seaters, he changed it. He made a canopy lower, like the front one and changed the area in front of the rear instrument panel. Nick was kind enough to offer me a set of his plans at no charge.I am not sure if the seat still has the full vertical adjustment. I was in that plane with Carolyn to go flying and the Duxford weather stopped us, so I can't offer a pirep on what it is like, but it works for her. A previous owner, Don Plumb of Windsor, Canada, made a simple sheet metal cover for the rear cockpit to make it look like a single seater, but the front cockpit was 13 inches forward. The Spitfire in the EAA museum is really a IAC 2 seater, with the back covered over. You can see the door hinge etc. if you look closely.

[PeterA]

You might be interested to know that BillG's TE308 started life as a rare low-back fuselage Mk IX Spitfire with a 'teardrop' canopy and was originally painted and destined for the Egyptian Air Force.

PeterA

[Bluedharma]

Does anyone have any pictures of TE308 from way way back... when it was made for the Egyptian Air Force?

I have seen it when it was (RAF) and pics of it when it had (WKC).
http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/096020.html with the larger canopy.

I have seen these, but I don't think I have seen anything prior to seat 2 being covered over.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/Mark12/Album%203/9-TE308-1973002.jpg

Best Regards,

BlueDharma

[Ontario-Warbird]

Here are a few images i have collected for the Jerry Billing site.

http://www.jerrybilling.com/jerry_billi ... _te308.htm

Cheers Dave C

[Bluedharma]

Dave C,

Thank you for the link! This was exactly what I was looking for.

Regards,

Bluedharma

[Bluedharma]

Hello everyone.
I was wondering if I could confirm and get a little more info about this aircraft.
Since it is in my local area, it would be fun to find out the history of this 1944 spitfire.

On the website:http://www.warbirddepot.com/aircraft_fighters_spitfire-greenwood.asp

In 1946 Supermarine converted Mk.VIII MT818 into a two-seat trainer. The cockpit was moved forward 13 1/2" and a second cockpit was added behind it with a separate sliding hood. The pupil sat in the front cockpit and the instructor in the rear. MT818 first flew in this configuration in August 1946. Twenty Spitfire IXs were converted to two-seat trainers for the following customers; 3 for Holland, 10 for India, 1 for Egypt and 6 for Ireland.

Spitfire HF IXc TE308 was originally built with a Merlin 70 as a high altitude fighter, but was bought by Vickers in July 1950 and converted to a two-seat trainer and supplied to the Irish Air Corp as 163. In 1968 it was sold to civilian hands and joined the mass of airframes at Elstree Airfield for the movie Battle of Britain, and was used as a camera aircraft with the camera in the front seat. All forward-looking shots in the film were taken this way. It was acquired by Bill Greenwood in 1983 and wears the markings RJ-M in tribute to the Spitfire designer, Reginald J. Mitchell.

First question is:

You might be interested to know that BillG's TE308 started life as a rare low-back fuselage Mk IX Spitfire with a 'teardrop' canopy and was originally painted and destined for the Egyptian Air Force.

PeterA

PeterA,
I see that several were converted. Do you have a source that confirms that TE308 was the "one" for Egypt? Do you have any pictures? If so I would love to see them (if possible). The earliest pic from Dave C shows it when it went to private hands.
Are the other spitfires still in use?


EDIT:
sorry... on further review... PeterA... I see you know much about this plane.
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... ht=#125822

I had considerable discussion with Don Plumb before he undertook this modification...

That is most likely confirms it . It still would be neat to hear the history if you have it.



Question 2:

Here are a few images i have collected for the Jerry Billing site.

http://www.jerrybilling.com/jerry_billi ... _te308.htm

Cheers Dave C

Dave C,
Great Link!!!!!!
Is there any way to find the newspaper... or do you have a complete image of the news-clipping ("World War fighter is reborn -- and flies")?
I bet that article may have most of the information that I am looking for on it.


Question 3:

for the movie Battle of Britain, and was used as a camera aircraft with the camera in the front seat. All forward-looking shots in the film were taken this way.

Bill, or anyone...
Is this clip from MGM Battle of Britain the wing of the TE308?


Thanks for any information you can provide. I have learned much from this site, and enjoy reading what you guys post.

Best Regards,

BlueDharma

[PeterA]

Bluedharma

For an overview of things 'two-seat' Spitfire this web site is a good starting point.

http://pacificcoast.net/~zoman/main.html.html

Since this site was last updated a further two-seater has come to light that was most probable delivered to the Egyptian Air Force.

Try also here. A search on "TE308" on the Flypast Forum.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/search ... hid=918163

PeterA

[Bluedharma]

PeterA,
Thank you very much!

The movie is very nice!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrErg2Tb_tM

And this is as old a picture as I will see of this!
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=12573

WOW!

Thanks again for that great link PeterA!

Best Regards,

Bluedharma

[Bluedharma]

I found another picture of TE308 that I haven't seen on any other site so far... Including the great forum that PeterA supplied.

Here is the site with the picture about half way down.
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=nl_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.strijdbewijs.nl%2ffilm%2fbob%2fpag4.htm

PeterA,
Do you know if this was the TE308?
It shows the lettering CDK for the movie "Battle of Britain"
I found the site. It is in Dutch, but I ran the translation on it and it looks like it is the TE308. I am not positive.

Here is the original link.
http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/film/bob/pag4.htm


Best Regards,
Bluedharma

[PeterA]

PeterA,
Do you know if this was the TE308?
It shows the lettering CDK for the movie "Battle of Britain"
I found the site. It is in Dutch, but I ran the translation on it and it looks like it is the TE308. I am not positive.

Blueharma,

This shot of CD-K is TE308. The image was taken by Adrian Balch.

Two dual-seat Spitfires were used in the film and there are a number of identifying differences to the camouflage and engineering fit to distinguish them.

Squadron code letters were changed, sometimes on a daily basis, during filming.

PeterA