Privateer to B-24 conversion possible?
Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:52 pm
Seems kinda quiet in here tonight...everyone having supper? Having got myself into a little bit of a twitter over the current state of affairs with the Lady Be Good, I thought of a safer idea 
It seems that there are a number of Privateer airframes around, but unfortuantely not many B-24's flying or otherwise. Having seen the miracles that Gary has performed on Ol 927, I was curious if any serious thought has been put into transforming a Privateer into a Liberator. Other than the obvious tail change, would it be just too big of an undertaking ($$$$$$$$$$$$$) ? Has anyone else had these thoughts?
It seems that there are a number of Privateer airframes around, but unfortuantely not many B-24's flying or otherwise. Having seen the miracles that Gary has performed on Ol 927, I was curious if any serious thought has been put into transforming a Privateer into a Liberator. Other than the obvious tail change, would it be just too big of an undertaking ($$$$$$$$$$$$$) ? Has anyone else had these thoughts?
Hmmmm
Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:02 pm
This had been brought up before, around the time
the Privateers were being auctioned. A couple
obstacles in conversion are:
Longer Fuselage
Single Tail
Engine nacelles being oval vertically and not horizontally
Other than that, you'll need $$$$$
Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:03 pm
Since there are even fewer Privateers in existence than B-24's, I think it would be a crying shame to convert a complete PB4Y-2 into a B-24. However, I wouldn't be unhappy to see parts of one used in such a rebuild. You are talking a huge amount of money though.
Cheers,
Richard
PS. LBG isn't in that bad a condition. I think that there's 80% there to recreate a diorama of how she first looked, which is the only appropriate way to restore her, in my opinion.
Cheers,
Richard
PS. LBG isn't in that bad a condition. I think that there's 80% there to recreate a diorama of how she first looked, which is the only appropriate way to restore her, in my opinion.
Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:14 pm
I would rather there be a flying Privateer in WWII configuration than a B-24. We have a flying B-24A and a B-24J. There are no Privateers.
All this talk of Lady Be Good being restored is rather wasteful. Its in a museum in Tobruk, and if somehow is "released" would be the USAFM's property, not a warbird collector's.
Restore a Privateer. In fact the next random B-24 project if I had it would become a PB4Y-1...so there!
All this talk of Lady Be Good being restored is rather wasteful. Its in a museum in Tobruk, and if somehow is "released" would be the USAFM's property, not a warbird collector's.
Restore a Privateer. In fact the next random B-24 project if I had it would become a PB4Y-1...so there!
Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:15 pm
Yah. Why would you want to?
Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:09 am
Reminds me of a story I heard regarding the Yankee Air Museum's PB4Y-2 (feel free to correct any inaccuracies, Todd!) The aircraft came to the museum from an "anonymous donor." The unofficial story I heard was that he wanted a B-24, and someone convinced him that he could buy and convert the Privateer (at that time a neglected hulk moldering away in Canada after running off the end of a runway into the Pacific.) He bought the plane sight-unseen, and hired a "recovery team," who cut it up with power saws and loaded it on railroad cars. When he saw his new posession, the guy what he'd gotten himself into, and eventually donated it to the YAM. Considering what she's been through, the museum has done an amazing job rebuilding the plane!
As for converting a Privateer to a Liberator, I recall reading somewhere that the mounts for the horizontal stab are the same, but you'd still need to find or build an empenage. Of course you'd also need to shorten the fuselage, and rebuild the nose. I believe all the H&P Privateers have either the Coast Guard SAR nose, or custom affairs built when the turrets were removed. As for the horizontal vs. veritcal nacelles, it's a moot point..all of H&P's birds (in fact, I believe all existing PB4Ys) have been re-engined with B-25 R-2600 QECs.
I'm looking forward to seeing Lone Star's Privateer back in the air, complete with gun turrets and bombays! I'd rather see her in three-tone WWII camo, but I suppose the overall dark blue is easier to maintain.
Another cool idea I've had, was for Kermit Weeks to refurbish his B-24J, but swap out the turret nose with a "D" greenhouse, and paint her in North African markings (maybe one of the Ploesti raiders.) Of course, it wouldn't be quite accurate, but we'd have all the major variants represented by flyers, and she'd be different enough from the Collings bird to draw a crowd.
SN
As for converting a Privateer to a Liberator, I recall reading somewhere that the mounts for the horizontal stab are the same, but you'd still need to find or build an empenage. Of course you'd also need to shorten the fuselage, and rebuild the nose. I believe all the H&P Privateers have either the Coast Guard SAR nose, or custom affairs built when the turrets were removed. As for the horizontal vs. veritcal nacelles, it's a moot point..all of H&P's birds (in fact, I believe all existing PB4Ys) have been re-engined with B-25 R-2600 QECs.
I'm looking forward to seeing Lone Star's Privateer back in the air, complete with gun turrets and bombays! I'd rather see her in three-tone WWII camo, but I suppose the overall dark blue is easier to maintain.
Another cool idea I've had, was for Kermit Weeks to refurbish his B-24J, but swap out the turret nose with a "D" greenhouse, and paint her in North African markings (maybe one of the Ploesti raiders.) Of course, it wouldn't be quite accurate, but we'd have all the major variants represented by flyers, and she'd be different enough from the Collings bird to draw a crowd.
SN
Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:42 am
What happened to the trend torward historical accountability and correct restorations? I suppose the next best thing to an original Sopwith Camel is the Rotax engined replicas. As in cars, eventually with these aircraft a "Bitsa" will always be a "Bitsa".
Well maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully the warbird world can learn something from the autosport scene.
Well maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully the warbird world can learn something from the autosport scene.
Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:03 am
Dang fellas...all I did was ask what I thought was a pretty harmless question and ya all go nuclear on me. What's up with the attitudes? I never suggested that the Lady Be Good be restored to flying condition. It would be a friendly gesture for the Libyan government to give her to a worthy organization here in the US for display purposes only. Maybe I should put this over on that thread? As for my thoughts of a Privateer being converted to a Liberator, it was just that, thoughts. I did not mean for any of you to get all tipsy on my idea and did not realize that there are people who take their airplanes that seriously. My bad. I thought this would be a forum where a far-fetched idea like mine could be discussed rationally. Thanks SN for at least your thoughtful input 
Having not been on here for very long, I am finding out that one needs to keep their mouths shut if they are not an expert on a given topic. That sux, because my first impression of this site was that it was for all to come in and discuss and learn. My bad.
Having not been on here for very long, I am finding out that one needs to keep their mouths shut if they are not an expert on a given topic. That sux, because my first impression of this site was that it was for all to come in and discuss and learn. My bad.
Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:07 am
Thank you also Bill...that was about all I was really looking for was what were the major obstacles, outside of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I will go crawl back under my rock now 
Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:28 am
There would always be the stigma of "Well, thats not really a B-24..." It would be an interesting project though. Sort of like trying to make the
B-50 Lucky Lady II whole again using parts from a C-97 (wings, etc.).
Neat topic to bring up (you did no wrong)...
B-50 Lucky Lady II whole again using parts from a C-97 (wings, etc.).
Neat topic to bring up (you did no wrong)...
Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:53 am
There a Halifax in a British museum that I believe is an amalgamation of parts from wrecks and scratchbuilt components, and the wings from a transport derivative (which was being scrapped.) Sure, I suppose it's technically a replica, but I'm glad to see such a rare type represented at all.
SN
SN
Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:25 am
is that nose art on the model a decal or hand painted??
Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:16 am
Decal.
"and did not realize that there are people who take their airplanes that seriously."
Well I guess that would be me. Fact is they are I guess a little more than a hobby. The hard thing to remember is that most of the people you see think that they are just airplanes.
"and did not realize that there are people who take their airplanes that seriously."
Well I guess that would be me. Fact is they are I guess a little more than a hobby. The hard thing to remember is that most of the people you see think that they are just airplanes.
Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:35 pm
still an awesome job..... congrats!!!
Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:07 pm
Feel free to donate your extra B-50 wings and wing center section carry-through (the original was cut away when the fuselage was a walk-through display for the USAF).APG85 wrote:There would always be the stigma of "Well, thats not really a B-24..." It would be an interesting project though. Sort of like trying to make the
B-50 Lucky Lady II whole again using parts from a C-97 (wings, etc.).
Please deliver to:
Planes fo Fame
7000 Merrill Avenue
Chino, CA 91710
For the time being, taking the KC-97 wings that were going to be scrapped seems like a good idea to me in case your donation gets lost in the mail.
There is a campaign to collect donations for the B-17 restoration at the moment so the B-50 is probably on the back burner. I'm sure donations to the B-17 fund would be really appreciated in the mean time.