P-51Ds of the 20th Ftr Gp
Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:41 pm
I never grant requests so get over it 
Here by request.........................
Capt Ed Pogue 79th FS 6 kills
Lt Chuck Hamme 79th Fs & crew
Capt Ingy Ingebristsen (a great friend RIP) 79th FS 1.5 HE-115s
Capt Bob Phipps & crew 79th FS
Lt Col Hal Rau CO 20th FG
Maj. Nick Nichols CO 77th FS & "Wilda" 3 kills
My pal Ingy again. He used to hang out at Swan Island Airport in Portland has a kid and got his first ride with Tex Rankin.
Here by request.........................
Capt Ed Pogue 79th FS 6 kills
Lt Chuck Hamme 79th Fs & crew
Capt Ingy Ingebristsen (a great friend RIP) 79th FS 1.5 HE-115s
Capt Bob Phipps & crew 79th FS
Lt Col Hal Rau CO 20th FG
Maj. Nick Nichols CO 77th FS & "Wilda" 3 kills
My pal Ingy again. He used to hang out at Swan Island Airport in Portland has a kid and got his first ride with Tex Rankin.
Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:37 pm
ENCORE!! ENCORE!!!
Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:42 pm
What was the official wartime policy regarding photos like these? Were they "publicity stiils," were they for historical documentation, or what? A lot of them were obviously "hero pose" type shots like you would see in a hgh school yearbook. It is so fortunate that "someone" had the presence of mind to take these kinds of shots so you can see the faces of the pilots and crew. Was this done as extensively in the Pacific theater as well? Just curious!
????
Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:27 pm
The 20th FG Photo section took thousands of photos during the war to documents the groups activities and kept meticulas records. If you can find a copy of the group history get it has it's amazing!!!
The ETO units for the most part did a good job with photography but lesser so in the MTO and still lesser in the A-P theatres. Of course their are exceptions to the rule.
The ETO units for the most part did a good job with photography but lesser so in the MTO and still lesser in the A-P theatres. Of course their are exceptions to the rule.
Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:41 pm
Most of these were indeed official photographs and were used with press releases in newspapers back home.
There obviously were days at King's Cliffe where everyone in the 79th FS was lined up, one at a time, in front of a specific plane and took shots like these taken. There are a multitude of photos taken in front of either "Danny Boy" (as in the solo shot of Capt. Ingebrigtsen) or "Beaverhead Filly." The shots of pilots and their crews were usually taken on the completion of the pilot's combat tour.
The 20th Ftr Grp had a great P. R. man named Dexter Freeman, who had been a reporter prior to the war, and he kept the folks at home well informed - especially in the latter half of the group's operational period. Freeman's press releases were infamous for being almost form-like. He would simply input the pilot's name and hometown, slightly rephrase the content and then send it out to the appropriate hometown papers.
Many of these releases still exist at the National Archives and down at Maxwell. Many of these photos are, for the most part, still stapled to them. Under a dictate by 8th AF HQ, every month the squadron and group intelligence offices put together a squadron history which contained a monthly operational summary, all of the after mission reports and the press releases of the past 30 days.
Jack is right, King's Cliffe, the group history is one of the best resources out there. It was mainly compiled from monthly group and squadron reports.
P.S.: Great shots, Jack!
There obviously were days at King's Cliffe where everyone in the 79th FS was lined up, one at a time, in front of a specific plane and took shots like these taken. There are a multitude of photos taken in front of either "Danny Boy" (as in the solo shot of Capt. Ingebrigtsen) or "Beaverhead Filly." The shots of pilots and their crews were usually taken on the completion of the pilot's combat tour.
The 20th Ftr Grp had a great P. R. man named Dexter Freeman, who had been a reporter prior to the war, and he kept the folks at home well informed - especially in the latter half of the group's operational period. Freeman's press releases were infamous for being almost form-like. He would simply input the pilot's name and hometown, slightly rephrase the content and then send it out to the appropriate hometown papers.
Many of these releases still exist at the National Archives and down at Maxwell. Many of these photos are, for the most part, still stapled to them. Under a dictate by 8th AF HQ, every month the squadron and group intelligence offices put together a squadron history which contained a monthly operational summary, all of the after mission reports and the press releases of the past 30 days.
Jack is right, King's Cliffe, the group history is one of the best resources out there. It was mainly compiled from monthly group and squadron reports.
P.S.: Great shots, Jack!
Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:37 am
Thanks for the responses. Very fortuitous for us now, that's for sure!
Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:43 am
just to show off..... 
44-13535 MC-R
44-13753 MC-Y "Kitty & Bunny"
44-13752 MC-A "Miss (U) Louise"
44-13660 MC-B "My Kath"
44-14337 MC-R "Gentle Annie"
44-14891 LC-O "Wilda"
44-14365 MC-E "Danny Boy"
Martin
44-13535 MC-R
44-13753 MC-Y "Kitty & Bunny"
44-13752 MC-A "Miss (U) Louise"
44-13660 MC-B "My Kath"
44-14337 MC-R "Gentle Annie"
44-14891 LC-O "Wilda"
44-14365 MC-E "Danny Boy"
Martin
Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:16 am
M-a-n-y thanks Jack for posting the pix of the 79th FS. What a paint job on the nose!
Do you know what color's were used?
thanks,
WW2John
Do you know what color's were used?
thanks,
WW2John
Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:31 am
Ironic, I just bought decals for the 20th. They are from Superscale Decals and have the decal for that black thing(looks like a grill) on the nose.
Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:58 am
ww2John wrote:M-a-n-y thanks Jack for posting the pix of the 79th FS. What a paint job on the nose!
Do you know what color's were used?
thanks,
WW2John
If I'm not mistaken, the a/c wore black with either white or unpainted "piano keys". From color photos it looks as though the letters were often blue/grey or yellow/red. Has any current flying 51 worn these colors since N35FF or N34FF?
T J
Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:43 am
According to my sources the piano keys were 6 inches wide each and were black or white. The bulk of the color shots I have seen of 79th FS nose art shows the lettering was yellow with red shadowing.
I've hoped for someone out there to paint their Mustang in the colors of the 20th Ftr Grp for many years, maybe one day.... The last one I know of was Bill Clark's P-51D-30-NT, N51WB, "Dolly" back in the 80's and even then the markings on it weren't quite right. If anyone knows of any others I'd love to hear about them!
I've hoped for someone out there to paint their Mustang in the colors of the 20th Ftr Grp for many years, maybe one day.... The last one I know of was Bill Clark's P-51D-30-NT, N51WB, "Dolly" back in the 80's and even then the markings on it weren't quite right. If anyone knows of any others I'd love to hear about them!
????
Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:58 am
Actually only the early Bs & Ds with black/white nose band had black/white piano keys added usually right over the nose art
which was then repainted. Which is why you some of them with multiple names and obliderated names. Look at the photos and you can see how the piano keys were added right over the white band! Most all of the later issued 51s just used black for the markings leaving out the white. The early birds like Ingy's with OD on the top really looked nice.
which was then repainted. Which is why you some of them with multiple names and obliderated names. Look at the photos and you can see how the piano keys were added right over the white band! Most all of the later issued 51s just used black for the markings leaving out the white. The early birds like Ingy's with OD on the top really looked nice.
Re: ????
Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:21 pm
True, two great examples of the nose art being overpainted changing colors are Jack Ilfrey's "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" and Tom Daniel's "Danny Boy", both of which the nose art went from yellow with a red shadow to black with a yellow shadow.
There were variations of all kinds, including not using white in the group ID markings. I always heard the official scheme included white, however. I also have seen shots of D models with serial numbers on the vertical tail surfaces and without, some with subdued national insignias, it runs the gambit and is enough to keep us all busy for the rest of our lives trying to keep track of them all. Capt. Art Heiden even mentioned a plane that was transfered from one squadron to another within the group and the crew didn't have a chance to finish changing the markings over, so it flew with different codes on each side until they could find the time to finish it!
Agreed on the ones painted olive drab on the top. "Miss (U) Louise", "GlenGary Guy", "Soar Lassie II", "Almy Too", "Betsy III" and "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" (in its earliest scheme) were some of the most handsome Mustangs in the Group, if not the 8th AF.
There were variations of all kinds, including not using white in the group ID markings. I always heard the official scheme included white, however. I also have seen shots of D models with serial numbers on the vertical tail surfaces and without, some with subdued national insignias, it runs the gambit and is enough to keep us all busy for the rest of our lives trying to keep track of them all. Capt. Art Heiden even mentioned a plane that was transfered from one squadron to another within the group and the crew didn't have a chance to finish changing the markings over, so it flew with different codes on each side until they could find the time to finish it!
Agreed on the ones painted olive drab on the top. "Miss (U) Louise", "GlenGary Guy", "Soar Lassie II", "Almy Too", "Betsy III" and "Happy Jack's Go Buggy" (in its earliest scheme) were some of the most handsome Mustangs in the Group, if not the 8th AF.