Turret Camera

B-25 MM Jim · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:59 am

Hi All,
I'm looking for any application/information on a 3C-16d Turret Type F.G.S.A. Gun Camera adapter. I can get and post pictures tonight if necessary.

Thanks!
Jim

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:40 am

It doesn't ring any bells with me so please post some photos.

B-25 MM Jim · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:35 pm

Taigh,
Here are the photos!

Thanks,
Jim

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:14 pm

I am not sure but I think this is part of a Navy gunnery training set. I think there were several other components to the system. I have come across some parts and somewhere I think I have a manual for the system but I can't find it right now. Sorry I am of no help but as I recall it mounts in place of the gun sight for training. I bet Nick Veronico might recognize it as I think he has some system parts too. I will ask him.

B-25 MM Jim · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:18 pm

Thanks!

SHAEF1944 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:32 pm

From AFHRA

Lockheed "Ventura" Bomber, Student in training plane "attacks" bomber with movie camera gun. He must "shoot" him down. Simulating a fighter attack. Latest wrinkle in aerial gunnery training at Tyndall Field is practice firing at actual planes with the movie camera gun. Here a training plane "attacks" a Lockheed "Ventura" bomber. The student in the top turret must "shoot" him down with a camera gun mounted in the turret. When crosshairs on the film intersect on the plane, a hit is scored. This is good practice for tracking a swiftly moving target but it does not require the gunner to "lead" his target. (23075 A.C.)

Have not run across a pic of the US turret camera gun, but below is a British hand-held camera machinegun for gunnery training.

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:07 pm

This is an early version (1932) of the camera that was used in the turret for training in WWII but the later version is very similar. They would bolt directly into the gun mounts just like the actual gun. The flex gun was set up the same way.

They had a watch inside that would be filmed for a few frames to help identify the specific gunnery run:

This is an ad by Hamilton in WWII that talks about their watch which was used in the pictured training gun camera. This watch is highly desired these days and is mistakenly called a Bomb Timer. I was asked recently by a guy at Hamilton to show how their watch was used in the Norden bomb sight because they want to reproduce their famous watch since it helped win WWII. When I showed him that the watch was used in gunnery training, and not in the Norden bombsight, I got the impression it was not the answer he was looking for. Here is the ad:

The turret training camera that Jim is trying to identify was mounted where the gun camera would be and not in the gun mount itself but would do the same exact thing. More often than not the Army and the Navy had completely different ways of doing the same job. I think they were forced to get together later, against their will, to come up with equipment that could be used jointly. The pictured Gun camera in Jim's photos is one of the items that was used by both services. It's designation was changed to the AN N6 to reflect the Army Navy procurement but there are many that are individually marked Army and Navy, like Jim's camera.

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:04 am

I knew Nick would come through. He is awesome! Here is his reply:

The camera is for the Navy Free Gunnery Self Assessing (FGSA) turret camera for the Martin top turret, in my case for the B-24. I've attached a couple of quick scans from the manual. I have this whole set-up, I just need the Martin turret...

Basically, the sight yoke for a combat B-24 was removed and replaced with a training sight yoke fitted with either a Mark 9 or N-6A sight and the camera bolted to the right side of the sight, the periscopic part of the sight parellel with the gunsight's line of sight. The camera was boresighted from the bottom. It worked like any other gun camera -- when the trigger was pulled, the camera began recording. This camera recorded a reticle image and cross-hairs on the film to show if the gunner was aiming with the correct lead on the target. TMI?

I'm WIX challenged and can't figure out how to post photos or reply to any posts, so would you mind posting these for me? Thanks for letting me give input. I appreciate it.

Look forward to seeing you soon.
Nick

B-25 MM Jim · **Posted:** Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:15 am

Excellent!!! Thanks Taigh!!! And Thank you to Nick as well!

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:46 am

SHAEF1944 wrote:

From AFHRA

Lockheed "Ventura" Bomber, Student in training plane "attacks" bomber with movie camera gun. He must "shoot" him down. Simulating a fighter attack. Latest wrinkle in aerial gunnery training at Tyndall Field is practice firing at actual planes with the movie camera gun. Here a training plane "attacks" a Lockheed "Ventura" bomber. The student in the top turret must "shoot" him down with a camera gun mounted in the turret. When crosshairs on the film intersect on the plane, a hit is scored. This is good practice for tracking a swiftly moving target but it does not require the gunner to "lead" his target. (23075 A.C.)

Have not run across a pic of the US turret camera gun, but below is a British hand-held camera machinegun for gunnery training.

i have the japanese version of that lewis machine gun looking camera. the n-6 -a gun camera is pretty common. the gizmo it's attached to baffles me.

Sully · **Posted:** Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:50 am

Did I just see one used in the movie "Memphis Belle"?

Sully

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