last Allied aerial Victories in ETO

JustPlaneDave! · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:28 pm

Hello,

Looking for some help here.
I recall reading a few years back in a reference type WW2/Mustang related book about the last allied aerial victories in the ETO. 442 RCAF squadron recorded it's last aerial victory in a Mustang IV (P51D) on April 16, 1945 over a Fw190. I recall reading this may have also been the last aerial victory of the 2nd Tactical Air Force, or possibly the last Mustang victory but can't locate where I read that. Anyone able to help out on this or provide more information on the last allied aerial victories?

Thanks for any help.

Holedigger · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:35 pm

Off the top of my head, I seem to recall it was an L-Bird forcing down a Storch with their .45s! Seems that date was April 11th, 45

JustPlaneDave! · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:38 pm

Sorry, can't unsend this. I found what I was looking for - it was a research paper from a 442 Mustang historian - the victory in addition the being 442's last victory was also the 2nd Tactical Air Force's last MUSTANG Victory.

Firebird · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:46 pm

Louis 'Red Dog' Norley of the 4th FG, downed a Fw 190D on 17th April 1945.

But, W/O A.J. Brocklehurst of 56 Sqn RAF, flying a Tempest V, downed a Fw 190 12m NE of Lubeck on 3rd May 1945.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:20 pm

Quote:

Off the top of my head, I seem to recall it was an L-Bird forcing down a Storch with their .45s! Seems that date was April 11th, 45

More closer to the truth is that the German pilot just landed so he could surrender to the Americans which was the purpose of the flight.
The chance of hitting a moving airborne target with a .45 pistol is close to zero.
Even if it we're true, it still wouldn't be the last WWII ETO aerial kill.
That honor belongs to 2Lt Lee Larson of the 15th TRS flying a F-6D. On May 8th he downed a FW-190 NE of Radnitz, GR at 8 PM well after the L-4 vs Storch bruehaha.

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3332

According to this list, 2nd TAF Tempests were claiming victories all the way through May 3rd

http://www.hawkertempest.se/Victories.htm

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:49 pm

Jack Cook wrote:

Quote:

Off the top of my head, I seem to recall it was an L-Bird forcing down a Storch with their .45s! Seems that date was April 11th, 45

More closer to the truth is that the German pilot just landed so he could surrender to the Americans which was the purpose of the flight.
The chance of hitting a moving airborne target with a .45 pistol is close to zero.
Even if it we're true, it still wouldn't be the last WWII ETO aerial kill.
That honor belongs to 2Lt Lee Larson of the 15th TRS flying a F-6D. On May 8th he downed a FW-190 NE of Radnitz, GR at 8 PM well after the L-4 vs Storch bruehaha.

Aw come on Jack... never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

J/K. :lol:

Ryan

Holedigger · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:57 pm

C'mon Jack, if there was a Cub chasing you and a couple crazy American's with .45s chasing you, you would land too! :shock:

Ian Quinn · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:27 pm

Wing Commander Warren Schrader (DFC**) 486Sq got a 109 near Lubeck on the 1st May....

He died only a few months ago - great guy.

Chief · **Joined:** Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:18 pm **Posts:** 187

This thread caught my attention because my brother-in-law (Col Mel Geiger USAF retired) was a Lt. in the 15th TRS from D-Day until the end of the war. He flew the F-6D. I walked up the street to their house and checked his flight log a few minutes ago. The log is framed and is hanging on the wall. It indicates he flew three missions on May 8th. On the flight he flew at noon, he and his wingman ( now BGen Stan Newman USAF retired) forced down a Me-109 at R-28. Later in the evening, both he and Newman were jumped by two FW-190's six miles southeast of Bischofteinitz, Czechloslavkia. Each shot down one.

Mel's account goes on to state: "The squadron honors of the day however, went to Lt. Robert C. Little for it was he who scored the last aerial victory of the ETO. Lt. Little and Lt. Wallace Mitchell were patrolling along the Danube in their F6-D's when they were jumped by five FW-190's. They got in behind the 190's and Lt. Little shot one of them down. at 2000hrs.

JustPlaneDave! · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:53 pm

Wow.
There is so much information out there. I posted the thread after searching frantically for something I recall and was pretty sure I had but couldn't find it. Well, a few minutes after posting, I found it. What I was originally looking into was about the Mustang and it's last aerial victory in WW2. I had read claims it was on April 16, 1945 by 442 RCAF Squadron. 442 was part of the 2nd Tactical Air Force thereby possibly making this the last Mustang aerial Victory. There are certainly many victories up till the end of the war in the ETO on many different aircraft. With regards to the Mustang however, I am interested in a claim that April 16, 1945 was the last Aerial Victory with a Mustang. Many Mustang pilots had victories past that date but all seem to be listed as ground attacks. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused, but thank all who have replied.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:05 pm

Quote:

Little shot one of them down. at 2000hrs

those last 3 kills were all credited at 2000 hrs so would be hard to separate them out.
I may have to drop Frank Olynyk a email and ask him.
Lt Bob Little of the 12th TRS has a confirmed kill but Wallace does not.
Geiger and Newman are listed has assigned to the 162nd TRS 363rd TFG.

Dan Johnson II · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 1:49 am **Posts:** 659

Jack Cook wrote:

Quote:

Off the top of my head, I seem to recall it was an L-Bird forcing down a Storch with their .45s! Seems that date was April 11th, 45

More closer to the truth is that the German pilot just landed so he could surrender to the Americans which was the purpose of the flight.
The chance of hitting a moving airborne target with a .45 pistol is close to zero.
Even if it we're true, it still wouldn't be the last WWII ETO aerial kill.
That honor belongs to 2Lt Lee Larson of the 15th TRS flying a F-6D. On May 8th he downed a FW-190 NE of Radnitz, GR at 8 PM well after the L-4 vs Storch bruehaha.

The Cub vs Storch bit is covered quite well, with pictures too in "The Last Battle" by Cornelius Ryan. The Storch did a bit more then land. It's bent quite nicely and if I recall one of the passengers had been wounded by the 45.

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:50 am

Why only UK & US forces? I would have thought the Soviets probably had the last kill, with the Germans more interested in fighting them off to give fleeing groundforces and civilians time to get West

Dave

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:00 am

Just a minor point; AFAIK, 'ETO' was a US forces only term - certainly not used by the RAF or RAAF in Europe, and therefore I presume not by the RCAF either. Anyone know different?

Wiki (FWIW) says:

Quote:

'ETO': European Theater of Operations, the term used in the United States to refer to US operations north of the Mediterranean coast, in the European Theatre of World War II

And more (some interesting) detail here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_T ... Operations

Which may also address DaveM2's point, re the Russians on the Eastern Front - although east was rapidly becoming west...

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