US & British aircrew KIA during WW2 .... questions

Hellcat · **Posted:** Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:32 pm

I searched the internet a bit but I either found too much info or not enough, I was wondering if any of you WIXers have a "simple" (not a great word to use, sounds disrespectful, but not mean't to be) set of numbers that could tell me just how many American and British bomber crew lost their lives during WW2.

And fighter casualties (KIA) US & British would be interesting as well. And NO, I'm not a death monger, just wondering just how much of a sacrifice these great pilots and crew endured. My father lost a few great fighter pilot friends during the war and he had his own personal memorial to them that he wore the rest of his life. He always wore his belt buckle at about 45 degrees as a memorial to his fallen Navy flyers. Cool stuff I always thought.

BTW in my research I came across this great website. For those of you interested in the RAF during WW2, here you go. Also scroll down and take a look at the BofB link, very nice job by the folks who put this website together. Congrats from me.

http://www.acesofww2.com/UK/UK.htm

BTW, BTW ... for those of you PMing me and me PMing back about info I was researching. Thx to all, I have found most of what I was looking for.

Thx!!!! :lol:

Mark the calm, cool and collected again .... for how long is anyone's guess ... haha :wink:

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:27 pm

Mark,
Have you added a page for your dad here?
http://www.wwiimemorial.com/default.asp?page=registry.asp&subpage=intro
Here's the one I did for my uncle Andy
http://www.wwiimemorial.com/default.asp?page=registry.asp&subpage=search&drawtable=YES

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:39 pm

BTW Mark saw your photo on the web :shock:

Hellcat · **Posted:** Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:57 pm

Haha!!!! Jack that photo was taken when I was having a great game, scored a hat trick and was in a great mood .... :lol:

BTW ... not to feel too sorry for myself, but my dad passed away exactly a year ago today .... maybe one more hellcat shot would be cool Jack if you got one lying around somewhere ... :cry:

Here's the old boy doing what he did best. I would love to know more about this particular Hellcat. I'm still pulling teeth to get sis to send my dad's stuff out to me. ugh!!! ... one day soon.

I'll check your links out .... thx

Just registered Dad .... thx again, very cool, especially today.

Mark

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:41 am

Mark,

I have a partial answer to your question about bomber crew losses. RAF Bomber Command lost 55,000 aircrew in the European Theatre according to "The Other Battle" by Peter Hinchliffe. I don't have the figures for total RAF bomber crews from all theatres or the AAF numbers. Hope that helps a little.

Scott

Hellcat · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:23 am

Thx Scott, that 55,000 number is just terribly amazing. So many lost. And the AAF number I would assume is much larger. :cry:

TonyM · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:32 am

According to Martin Bowman's book
USAAF Hand Book 1939-1945
the USAAF combat losses are as follows:

ETO: 19,876 KIA; 8,413 wounded; 35,121 MIA.
MTO: 10,223 KIA; 4,947 wounded; 15,985 MIA.
POA: 926 KIA; 882 wounded; 668 MIA.
FEAF: 6,594 KIA; 3,005 wounded; 7,638 MIA.
CBI: 1,263 KIA; 494 wounded; 1,575 MIA.
Alaska: 451 KIA; 53 wounded; 168 MIA.
20th AF: 576 KIA; 433 wounded; 2,406 MIA.
Other: 152 KIA; 1 wounded; 7 MIA.

Additionally:

The AAF lost over 15,530 personnel killed in the United States
from 1 January 1941 to 31 December 1945 just moving planes around and in training people to fly and crew airplanes.
This number is for AAF alone; this does not count the number of USN, USMC, USCG, CAP and others killed in the US during WWII.
There are at least 78 USAAF airplanes still missing in the continental US and its waters from the WWII years.

TonyM.

Hellcat · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:58 am

Amazing and extremely sad. So many losses in the states. :cry:

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:46 pm

Hellcat wrote:

Thx Scott, that 55,000 number is just terribly amazing. So many lost. And the AAF number I would assume is much larger. :cry:

Bomber Command was just one RAF command - equivalent, if you like, to the 8th AF alone, except fighting from 1939 - 1945 without a break. Bomber Command had, I've read, the second highest loss rate of any force in the war - only the U Boat crews lost a higher percentage. Note sure of the stats behind it, but I can well believe it.

The British Commonwealth's other arms included Coastal, Fighter, Training and 2 Tactical Air Force in the UK; the Empire Training Scheme across the Commonwealth; air forces in the middle and far east, as well as north Africa and the Mediterranean - and then there's the other losses by the RCAF, RNZAF, RAAF, SAAF etc.

I've not found any total casualty figures as per your question with a brief look (good Q, BTW) but some things to think about:

I think these are all correct - they are hard to prove either way, of course.

The USA lost more people in the great influenza pandemic of 1919 than in all the wars fought in the 20th Century.

It's unlikely we will ever know the true casualty figures for the Eastern Front in both world wars.

It's been calculated that we killed more people in warfare in the 20th Century than in the entirety of human history to 1900. And the 21st C isn't looking too good so far.

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

British Commonwealth losses:
All branches of service -Served: 11,115,000 Killed/Missing: 580,000 Wounded: 475,000 Prisoner: 318,000 Percent killed: 5.2%
They present the US forces broken down into arms, and have separated out the USAAF from the Army.

Regards,

Hellcat · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:50 pm

It's somewhat interesting to me that we seem to be able to track down individual aircraft serial numbers lost during the war than we can track down airmen lost during the war. am I wrong here? .... over the past few years I still cannot find out when and where and somewhat how my uncle Patrick Mansfield was killed during the battle of the Bulge. All I know is he is burried at Arlington National Cemetery very close to where JFK is buried. And I still haven't seen his grave yet .... but soon.

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:56 pm

Hellcat wrote:

It's somewhat interesting to me that we seem to be able to track down individual aircraft serial numbers lost during the war than we can track down airmen lost during the war. am I wrong here?

Can't speak for US services. The Commonwealth has the magnificent organisation the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, or CWGC for short. Their work in maintaining cemeteries and supporting listings and research, person by person is beyond compare - but they don't, AFAIK, list total losses.

http://www.cwgc.org/

We have in Australia various other resources in addition - but I suspect they're not of interest.

I think if you ask some of the 'experts' here nicely, you'll have your question regarding your uncle answered.

Regards,

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:02 pm

Mark,
MANSFIELD, PATRICK G
T4 US AGF CO I 35 INF
DATE OF BIRTH: 03/06/1922
BURIED AT: SECTION 34 SITE 2945
ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY
C/O DIRECTOR ARLINGTON, VA 22211
(703) 607-8000

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:06 pm

...and on the teaching a man to fish principle, how'd you get that info?

Cheers,

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:21 am

Just to clarify my original partial answer to Mark's question I re-read the passage in "The Other Battle". The total Bomber Command aircrew fatality total was 55,500, not 55,000. This total includes men lost in everthing from the Blenheims, Whitleys, etc. up to the four engine equipment, from '39 to '45.

Hellcat · **Posted:** Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:53 am

I find this info very interesting .. sad, but interesting

Warbird Information Exchange

US & British aircrew KIA during WW2 .... questions

Who is online