Most Authentic Gun Turret

Hellcat · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:01 pm

What currently restored WW2 bomber has the most authentic gun turret? .... Is there such a turret. I understand the guns are not authentic, but is there a turret that has all the working parts?

b29flteng · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:57 pm

B-25 "Miss Mitchell" (So. Minn. wing CAF) has a fully operational Bendix upper turret.

HELLDIVERS · **Joined:** Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:38 pm **Posts:** 642

Bettys dream has all the bells and whistles both turrets are operational and include real but demilled 50 s with correct mfg dates a very well done restoration

hang the expense · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:55 pm

Tallichets B-17.The top turret would power up back in the early 90s and we could hang the cans on it as well. I just dont see how anybody got around that thing fully fitted out.

b29flteng · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:59 pm

Younger, skinnier, didn't know any different!

hang the expense · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:01 pm

So true.It is amazing how the passage of time will change ones perspective. :oops:

Elroy13 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:25 pm

HELLDIVERS wrote:

Bettys dream has all the bells and whistles both turrets are operational and include real but demilled 50 s with correct mfg dates a very well done restoration

I second this one!!

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:29 pm

909 has a complete ball turret

astixjr · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:29 pm

That's a really interesting question. That I can remember, I've never seen a TBM/TBF turret move under it's own power. I've never seen a Martin or Sperry upper move under it's own power. I've seen a video of a B-17's ball turret moving under it's own power (on the ground) but I'm going to leave that subject alone. In doing my research on this pile of turret parts here in St. Louis, I've been a bit surprised by not only the number of non-working turrets in flyable bombers but also by the number of incorrect turrets stuffed into and onto really nice restorations. The most authentic bomber (turret included) that I ever crawled around was the PV-2 owned by Doug Lacey (?). It was like being in a time machine, everything worked and it was by far the most authentic warbird bomber I have ever been in. Sadly, it was lost in a fatal crash back in 92' I think.

I'll say one thing, these WWII era turrets are a whole lot more complicated than I ever thought possible. It would be nice to see some authentic turret restorations on flyable bombers but I can't say I blame the owners and operators for not doing it more often.

One of the best WIXers to pose this question to is Taigh Ramey. Taigh?

noizeedave · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:54 pm

Big reason for certain aircraft, ( B-25's ) not having operating turrets is due to the fact that an operational bendix turret or even martin turrets reduce the amount of passengers you can give flights to. -25's would lose the 2 student seats to install the whole turret.

Matt Gunsch · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:08 am

Sentimental Journey has operational turrets. I have run the top turret not long after it was installed.

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:14 am

There are many complete turrets flying around these days.

Wayne worked hard to get the ball turret on Collings B-17G operational. Jim Harley was kind enough to let me take it for a spin from Concord, CA to Klamath Falls in June. What a wonderful, dream come true thanks to Jim, Wayne, Mac, Rob and the whole Collings organization.

Here is a video of that trip:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LvuChgh4fGg

Incidentally I am six foot four and weigh in at a dainty 285 pounds. If I fit into the ball turret then you probably could too.

8th Air Force ball turret gunner Wilbur Richardson told me that the limit for Ball turret gunners was six foot two inches. He also said that the AAF had a critical dimension from your hip to the knee. If you were too long in that part of your leg then you were not allowed to ride the ball. Mr. Richardson was six foot two. He trained as a tail turret gunner in a B-17. The ball turret gunner in their crew hated the ball and traded positions with him and said he loved the ball turret.

Jeremy and I were working on the ball turret in the Collings B-24 to try and get it up (or down) and running. Someone had been messing with it and had it pretty screwed up and broke some parts inside the turret. I hope Albert will have what we need to get it running again. I plan on working on it while on the road in 2008.

The B-24 tail turret is mostly there and will need plumbing and I suspect a lot of seals and gaskets and a pump motor.

The Martin 250CE in the B-24 is a real late turret but is realitively complete and should be straight forward to get operational.

The Emerson nose in the B-24 is going to be a pretty involved project and I would think that it may need removal.

All of the turrets in the ground up restorations that Carl and Tony and Aerotrader did are fully operational and beautiful. These include the B-25J's; How 'Boot That, Betty's Dream and Apache Princess.

Aerotrader is also going to have the GE turrets operational in Kermit’s A-26. This aircraft was never demilitarized and has always carried its full turret and armament system. She is truly a special aircraft.

The Crocker Wheeler in my old SNB-1 should be operational. She is lovingly cared for by Dave Renner in Sparta, Il.

Chad Sisk has the tail turret and pretty much everything else working on mike Pupich's TB-25N Heavenly Body. Chad is a true B-25 guru. He lives and breathes B-25.

Harland Avezzie builds operational turrets for folks especially Martin 150's for the TBM. I am sure one or more of his turrets are flying.

Our shop will gladly rebuild any turret for you. We have over 15 turrets at our museum and several are operational. We have a working CFC system for the B-29 with the ring sight.

We are going to get FiFi's lower forward turret operational for demonstrations.

We are short of Amplidynes for the B-29 system so if you all know of any available please let us know. We also are looking for any additional turrets, parts and projects for any type of turret. We have a lot of stuff available for trade too!

Here is a video of our Ball Turret all fired up for the PBS TV series Warplanes:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=l4GS1PND7pA

There is more but I have to go to bed.

airnutz · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:46 am

Durn nice informative thread..and a really informative post Taigh..I had lingered
to the history that ball gunners were midgets..or slightly larger..

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