XP-51G 43-43335 owned by John Morgan... details anyone?

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:00 pm

Just wondering whether anyone knew the details behind this aircraft, her current status, or if there were any photos of the aircraft. It's long been one of the great mystery aircraft for me. I know the basic details about how she was discovered enroute to the scrappies, but little else. Anyone care to fill in further?

Cheers,
Richard

visaliaaviation · **Joined:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:01 pm **Posts:** 353

I last talked to John several years ago. He told me that the a/c was in for long range restoration. He spoke about using parts from other Mustangs to get her flying. Basic plan was to use H wing outers mated to the G centersection (???) he told me he was planning to use D stab & elevators. He has the correct engine. He supplied me with some NAA drawings of the XP-51F, which was basically similar similar airframe. He did not plan to use a five bladed prop! That's pretty much the last I heard. Hope there have been some new developments!!!!

Wolverine · **Posted:** Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:41 am

Um, it'll be at GML? I'll be really interested in seeing this airframe.

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:40 pm

Very interesting news.... I can't imagine that she'll be a flyer yet... I would have thought that we would have heard about it... very cool to see her there though, if indeed Mr. Morgan brings her.

Thanks very much for the details visaliaaviation... it must be quite an ambitious project! Have you seen the aircraft yourself? How much of the fuselage had survived?

Cheers,
Richard

visaliaaviation · **Joined:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:01 pm **Posts:** 353

No I have not. I met with John at his place of work. It is my understanding that the basic central portion of the fuselage was cut off aft of the pilot's position, right thru the canopy. It was reported to have been a digh school demo on castors. I can't recall if the wing was was cut down too or if even he has a portion of the original wing? I'm thinking he said he did.

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:01 pm

visaliaaviation wrote:

No I have not. I met with John at his place of work. It is my understanding that the basic central portion of the fuselage was cut off aft of the pilot's position, right thru the canopy. It was reported to have been a digh school demo on castors. I can't recall if the wing was was cut down too or if even he has a portion of the original wing? I'm thinking he said he did.

Very interesting indeed! Thanks for the details. You wouldn't happen to have contact information you could PM me, would you?

All the best,
Richard

Hal B · **Posted:** Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:55 pm

visaliaaviation wrote:

No I have not. I met with John at his place of work. It is my understanding that the basic central portion of the fuselage was cut off aft of the pilot's position, right thru the canopy. It was reported to have been a digh school demo on castors. I can't recall if the wing was was cut down too or if even he has a portion of the original wing? I'm thinking he said he did.

The wings were chopped off about flush with the sides of the fuselage. You've got it just about right, concerning the fuselage. The original intent was to graft "H" wings on. John's made a lot of progress over the years, but I don't know that its close to flying yet.

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:28 pm

Hal B wrote:

visaliaaviation wrote:

No I have not. I met with John at his place of work. It is my understanding that the basic central portion of the fuselage was cut off aft of the pilot's position, right thru the canopy. It was reported to have been a digh school demo on castors. I can't recall if the wing was was cut down too or if even he has a portion of the original wing? I'm thinking he said he did.

The wings were chopped off about flush with the sides of the fuselage. You've got it just about right, concerning the fuselage. The original intent was to graft "H" wings on. John's made a lot of progress over the years, but I don't know that its close to flying yet.

Were these the H-model wings recovered from the mountian top crash, as depicted in Nick Veronico's book about wreck chasing? I have always wondered what became of them.

Cheers,
Richard

visaliaaviation · **Joined:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:01 pm **Posts:** 353

That doesn't seem to me to be enough left of the original wing to graft onto anything. H wing, while probably identical in geometry and airfoil is not same contruction. Spars of H deviated from earlier practice using machine tapered spar flanges riveted onto alum sheet webs. Earlier typical Mustang spars were bent sheet alum channels. I do know tips of H are joined with a raked panel separation. Previous a/c, including G had for/aft tip separation. i'm wondering if a new built wing might be better option??

Not being critical of John's plans. just commenting on the enormity of the task. His call, what ever he does is fine by me and I wish him great success (...and possibly a few progress photos??)

Hal B · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:46 pm

RMAllnutt wrote:

Hal B wrote:

visaliaaviation wrote:

No I have not. I met with John at his place of work. It is my understanding that the basic central portion of the fuselage was cut off aft of the pilot's position, right thru the canopy. It was reported to have been a digh school demo on castors. I can't recall if the wing was was cut down too or if even he has a portion of the original wing? I'm thinking he said he did.

The wings were chopped off about flush with the sides of the fuselage. You've got it just about right, concerning the fuselage. The original intent was to graft "H" wings on. John's made a lot of progress over the years, but I don't know that its close to flying yet.

Were these the H-model wings recovered from the mountian top crash, as depicted in Nick Veronico's book about wreck chasing? I have always wondered what became of them.

Cheers,
Richard

As I recall, he had a couple sets of 'H' wings from wrecks. Don't know exactly where from.

Hal B · **Posted:** Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:50 pm

visaliaaviation wrote:

That doesn't seem to me to be enough left of the original wing to graft onto anything. H wing, while probably identical in geometry and airfoil is not same contruction. Spars of H deviated from earlier practice using machine tapered spar flanges riveted onto alum sheet webs. Earlier typical Mustang spars were bent sheet alum channels. I do know tips of H are joined with a raked panel separation. Previous a/c, including G had for/aft tip separation. i'm wondering if a new built wing might be better option??

Not being critical of John's plans. just commenting on the enormity of the task. His call, what ever he does is fine by me and I wish him great success (...and possibly a few progress photos??)

Charles, I probably used "graft" a little too figuratively... I think he was planning on starting with as many of the original parts as were usable and going from there. And it's been quite a few years since I saw the project.

marine air · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:00 pm

I wish Morgan would sell it. I have been reading about his project for at least 30 years. He always says it going to take a long time and it has.
Um, aren't they making Mustangs from scratch now at several shops? The ability to get it flying again, no matter what they would have to make from scratch is not the issue it was 30 years ago.
I hope we don't have to wait another 30 years for someone else with a real sense of commitment (money) to get it back into the air. It's almost like he's holding it hostage, to get attention from the warbird community. One reasonable option would be to sell what he has, and get to see it fly again in his lifetime, albeit under other ownership, and use that money to buiy a project he can afford to finish and maybe even fly.

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:07 pm

marine air wrote:

I wish Morgan would sell it. I have been reading about his project for at least 30 years. He always says it going to take a long time and it has.
Um, aren't they making Mustangs from scratch now at several shops? The ability to get it flying again, no matter what they would have to make from scratch is not the issue it was 30 years ago.
I hope we don't have to wait another 30 years for someone else with a real sense of commitment (money) to get it back into the air. It's almost like he's holding it hostage, to get attention from the warbird community. One reasonable option would be to sell what he has, and get to see it fly again in his lifetime, albeit under other ownership, and use that money to buiy a project he can afford to finish and maybe even fly.

???? Why don't you buy it and pour your money into it then? Seems an awfully silly thing to say about someone elses personal property. It's his right to do with as he sees fit. Period. If it hadn't been for him rescuing it in the first place... literally on the back of a truck heading to the dump... there wouldn't be anything left of the aircraft. My hats off to Mr. Morgan, whether it takes him another year or fifty to finish it.

Richard

Hal B · **Posted:** Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:07 pm

marine air wrote:

I wish Morgan would sell it. I have been reading about his project for at least 30 years. He always says it going to take a long time and it has.
Um, aren't they making Mustangs from scratch now at several shops? The ability to get it flying again, no matter what they would have to make from scratch is not the issue it was 30 years ago.
I hope we don't have to wait another 30 years for someone else with a real sense of commitment (money) to get it back into the air. It's almost like he's holding it hostage, to get attention from the warbird community. One reasonable option would be to sell what he has, and get to see it fly again in his lifetime, albeit under other ownership, and use that money to buiy a project he can afford to finish and maybe even fly.

Sounds like "sour grapes" to me.

The project is John's to deal with as he sees fit. My hats off to him for saving the thing in the first place and for all the work that he has accomplished so far!

visaliaaviation · **Joined:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:01 pm **Posts:** 353

I've got to say that John's story of how he aquired his project is one of the truly great ones. As he related to me, and IIRC, he was driving along when he saw the fuselage riding on a flatbed truck. He was able to get the driver to pull over and was told it was being scrapped. He got the driver to dump it at his home instead of the recycler, for the same amount he expected to get for the scrap aluminum.

also, IIRC, he aquired the engine in another stroke of luck. It may have been prior to finding the airframe emains. I believe there is a first hand account in the second issue of Mustang's International.

Having grown up in a flying family envolved with the early Antique Aircraft Association movement, I know too well the concept "not forsale for love nor money" as it applies to locating and aquiring interesting aircraft projects. It can be frustrating, but I also know that there is ALWAYS another to be had.

If one has to have a warbird, one can find away to get it. Me? I want a Mustang. Even if I have to build it from scratch. Having been involved in a number of museum restorations, the prospect is not as daunting as it once was. I also know of a couple of other individuals also interested in starting this way. Perhaps we should start a new thread specifically for this subject?

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XP-51G 43-43335 owned by John Morgan... details anyone?

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