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| Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds https://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=51649 |
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| Author: | ProudKerman [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
Hi I was just wondering what advice anyone would have for starting out with Warbird restoration. Though I am too young and dont have the money to start an actual restoration project, I wanted to know what sort of stuff I should know first. Like prerequisites or that sort of thing. Should I learn any sort of metal work tactics, I'm not sure how really to explain it but yeah any advice?  Cheers |
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| Author: | Obergrafeter [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
ProudKerman wrote: Hi I was just wondering what advice anyone would have for starting out with Warbird restoration. Around here the best advice I can give......grow thick skin for the advice you will get lol Just kidding but good luck with your endeavors. |
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| Author: | Warbird Kid [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
You wouldn't happen to be near Connecticut would you? We're very keen on bringing in new people that have 0 experience and start from the ground floor. While we're only doing static restoration, it's still practical knowledge that could be applied to flying restorations. |
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| Author: | bdk [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
You can learn all the basic skills in A&P (Airframe & Powerplant) school and go from there. http://www.airframeandpowerplant.com/ |
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| Author: | Cvairwerks [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
Without knowing a few things, it's kinda hard to give you some concentrated directional information. As bdk suggests, getting an A&P is a good start. I would also start collecting books and videos as well as watching Youtube shorts by guys like Ron Fournier, Lazze, Kent White et al. These are all excellent metalworking guys and willing show good techinques as well as basic operations for metal work. At the same time, I'd start stashing cash to go and take the various SportAir workshops that are put on around the country by the EAA and Aircraft Spruce. They offer some basic sheet metal, gas welding, TIG welding, wiring, fabric and composites weekend classes. While they are pretty quick paced and don't go into things super deeply, there is enough there to get you familiar with the process and let you taste the work. As you go along, you can start to accumulate the basic tools of the trades. One thing I will caution you to do, is buy quality tools. Tools are going to be a huge investment if youi are going to work on anything mechanical throughout your life. It's much cheaper int he long run if you buy a quality tool once and never have to replace it, over buying a cheap item to save moeny and having to replace it during your career. Last thing I would suggest, and I know it will raise some eyebrows, is to join vansairforce.net and read like crazy. There are people on the forum that have skill levels that run the range and you can find lots of good information there. Beyond that, you will have to learn lots of new skills and prctice them til you master them. Some of the best skills building projects you can do are to build yourself a tool tray caddy and a spark plug rack. You will learn design, layout, cutting, forming and riveting while building something worthwhile for your shop. There are some other things that will help, but without some personal details, we can't guide you. |
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| Author: | Rob Mears [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
Speaking of Van's Air Force; buying a tail kit for the RV of your choice will give you a very real idea of what it takes to form, cut, drill, and rivet aluminum sheet. If you do a decent job of fabricating the assembly, you can most likely resell it and make back a fair portion of your initial investment. This will give you a chance to acquire some of the basic tools for metal fabrication, and work on a small project that you can control and work at your own pace. It will also give you a chance to make acquaintances with other fabricators in your area, as you'll probably need someone to help you buck those rivets! Also, if you can make it to EAA AirVenture in Oshkosh, you'll have the opportunity to try your hand at fabric, welding, etc, all for the price of the ticket at the gate. Its a week-long event that will offer you the opportunity to cross paths with droves of like-minded people. Baby steps, real world experience, and education. After a few years of focused effort, you'll be surprised how much knowledge you've gained, and the skill sets you've acquired! Pad that resume with experience, focus on quality, and then when Vulture's Row Aviation or one of the other companies comes around here advertising for experienced help in their warbird shops, you just might have the resume to make your dreams for a career in warbird fabricating come true. 
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| Author: | ProudKerman [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
Thanks to everyone, unfortunately Warbird Kid and Rob I live in Australia, so that makes attending these events difficult but thanks anyway. Glad to see such an inviting community. |
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| Author: | The Inspector [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
ProudKerman wrote: Thanks to everyone, unfortunately Warbird Kid and Rob I live in Australia, so that makes attending these events difficult but thanks anyway. Glad to see such an inviting community. The CAA should have some sort of minimal schooling time requirements to obtain an engineers license in Oz. In the U.S. it's around 1850 hours ( 6 or 7 Quarters) and can be obtained in an approved A&P school attached to a community college for around $2000.00 (or, you can enroll in Embry-Riddle and get EXACTLY the same government dictated education for $35,000.00 and have a big student loan burden in exchange for a fancier birdcage liner). Pass a computerized written exam, perform a practical and oral exam with an Approved Mechanics Examiner and obtain your 'wet ink' permit to learn (for the balance of your career). |
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| Author: | ProudKerman [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
Thanks Inspector. Firstly I think it's CASA if I'm not wrong but that doesn't matter. I was thinking of pursuing a career as a pilot in the Air Force but could consider part time uni for mechanics after my RAAF uni. Warbird restoring would probably just be a hobby of mine but one I am passionate about none the less. Because I want to both restore and fly warbirds I figure parts of the flight experience can come from the RAAF but I would still need mechanical knowledge for the restoration side of things. Cheers, 
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| Author: | Kyleb [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
ProudKerman wrote: Hi I was just wondering what advice anyone would have for starting out with Warbird restoration. Though I am too young and dont have the money to start an actual restoration project, I wanted to know what sort of stuff I should know first. Like prerequisites or that sort of thing. Should I learn any sort of metal work tactics, I'm not sure how really to explain it but yeah any advice? Cheers My opinion is that your best option would be to find a restoration shop or museum and volunteer or do paid grunt work until you develop proficiency in the basics, then move up from there. Ideally, that path would include a way to earn your license. Aviation wrenching and restoration is typically learned in more of an apprentice type environment rather than a classroom. Heck, you could get a "free" start in aviation if you could find an RV builder to assist in your local area. |
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| Author: | The Inspector [ Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
ProudKerman wrote: Thanks Inspector. Firstly I think it's CASA if I'm not wrong but that doesn't matter. I was thinking of pursuing a career as a pilot in the Air Force but could consider part time uni for mechanics after my RAAF uni. Warbird restoring would probably just be a hobby of mine but one I am passionate about none the less. Because I want to both restore and fly warbirds I figure parts of the flight experience can come from the RAAF but I would still need mechanical knowledge for the restoration side of things. Cheers, So, do some weekend volunteer work with a restorer, enough to get yourself familiar with aircraft in general and the terminology, then go enlist in the RAAF and request aviation maintenance based on your 'vast experience' with old airplanes   even if all you did was drill out rusty screws and bolts and strip paint let the government teach you the ins and outs as you make a contribution to the nations security. before you get out, enroll in a mechanic school towards getting your ticket (Unka Sugar pays for your A&P schooling here) and the day you stop wearing green, you're trained and licensed and ready to go-or you might decide to make a career out of the service and that mechanics license may open doors in the promotion path. Like I tell my grandkids, take the loooooonnnnnggg view, you might wind up working at the Air Forces museum
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| Author: | Taylor Stevenson [ Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
Pick up some old US Army Army Air Corps/Forces Technical Orders (T.O.s) on eBay or other websites if you can find them cheap. They're fun to read, illustrated, and give you an idea of the methods and tools used back in the day. This will come in handy when you're restoring warbirds and need to know how they did something in 1944. You should be able to pick up the common ones for $5-20USD each. Beyond that, just keep searching on Google and learning. There are some wonderful sites out there regarding the little details one needs for an authentic restoration. While bending metal and doping fabric is a major part of warbird restoration, it is the last 20% of detail that is the most important and hardest to accomplish. The important part is to have fun. Like me, you'll run into naysayers along the way, but the vast majority of the warbird community wants nothing more than to help you get another bird back in the air. Your youth gives you a distinct advantage as well. We all want to see the restoration art and warbird enthusiasm survive in our (I'm 24) generation. Good luck! |
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| Author: | hang the expense [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
Find some old curmudgeon and apprentice under that guy to learn the sheetmetal aspect of warbirds. No hatchet jobs.For what an a&p licence will cost you buy lottery tickets instead. Same result. An A&P 30 or 40 years ago meant something because of what was taught. I am not impressed with what is coming out of the schools these days. Thats my opinion, others will vary.The books you can find on ebay of the way they made things back in the day are awesome and you can learn a lot from them.Find a shop that is looking for volunteers and offer to help out.I quit a 60 thou a year job at a bodyshop way back when to go to work for MARC in chino that paid 8 bucks an hour and learned from "THE" master.Best education I ever received. |
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| Author: | hang the expense [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
Kyleb wrote: ProudKerman wrote: Hi I was just wondering what advice anyone would have for starting out with Warbird restoration. Though I am too young and dont have the money to start an actual restoration project, I wanted to know what sort of stuff I should know first. Like prerequisites or that sort of thing. Should I learn any sort of metal work tactics, I'm not sure how really to explain it but yeah any advice? Cheers My opinion is that your best option would be to find a restoration shop or museum and volunteer or do paid grunt work until you develop proficiency in the basics, then move up from there. Ideally, that path would include a way to earn your license. Aviation wrenching and restoration is typically learned in more of an apprentice type environment rather than a classroom. Heck, you could get a "free" start in aviation if you could find an RV builder to assist in your local area. Right on the money |
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| Author: | Enemy Ace [ Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Advice on Starting out restoring warbirds |
You may want to consider restoring an old car first. This will give you mechanical and bodywork experience cheaply if you have never restored something before. I would try and find something with a carb so that you can overhaul that as well. When you are done you have something that has appreciated in value and can be shown to a shop owner as a testament to your skill. If you find out that it just isn't for you then you don't have much invested. Most restoration work is grunt work, cleaning polishing and painting. What is in short supply in aviation and every other mechanical trade is the patience required to stick to a task and do it right. I am a A&P, I A, owned my own shop and taught A&P school. Good luck, as with anything, you will get out of aviation what you put into it. - Robert |
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