Warbird Information Exchange :: View topic - Removing F-4C Phantom wings.

As the title says, does anyone know how to remove the wings off of an F-4C phantom? The museum I belong two has acquired one and we are in desperate need of this info. We have removed all the service panels (at least we think we have) but can not figure out how to get them off. We are at the point where will have to cut the wing off if we can't find out soon.

What little info we have been give is that they were not designed to be removed, but there has to be a way...

The F-4 is currently at Wright Patterson by the museum. We were supposed to have it out of there back in March/April, but we have only gotten the easy stuff. As soon as the wings can come off we can get it back onto our hangar to be restored.

Here is our plane:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Ai ... c5b922aba6
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Ai ... 13f1f75d08
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Ai ... 13f1f75d08

I would also caution that the attach bolts are probably Taperloks which gain in diameter as you get towards the head end, they CANNOT be driven out from the top, you WILL destroy the structure trying to 'broach' the pin out if you succeed in drilling the heads off. On MDC commercial aircraft, you can loosen the nut until it's flush with the end of the threads (you will need that fastener so do not damage it!!) and when the preload on the part is relieved by shoring or jacking, a couple of sharp raps from a rivet gun using a brass tip on the die, will allow the fastener to 'pop' loose for nut removal and fastener extraction (leaving the nut on gives you a bigger striking surface to cut down on damage to the fastener and keeps the fastener from disappearing after you strike it) an optional method is a socket or sleeve and a clamp to use as a 'driveway arbor press' like you'd use to change a 'U' joint in a driveline. Document where that fastener came from so you can put it back in the same hole as taperloks are individually drilled using a very complex to set up Winslow drill and an adjustable for depth tapered drill bit.
Keep us posted on your progress-

The Inspector wrote:

I believe you are correct about the tapered fasteners.

Yes tapered, and hopefully you have about 6 sets of hands! :drink3:

They are not taper locks bolts. They are NAS 629 bolts, about 16 of them in different sizes. I have removed a couple Phantom wings, not fun. I can send you the copies of the pages from the T.O. if you don't have it. PM me.

Pat Rodgers

I'll email it off as soon as I get it scanned. about 46 pages.
Removal in a nutshell:
Remove both engines, both outer wing fold panels, open door 22, the big door forward of the foreward spar, removed all fuel manifolds, lines, both hyd/fuel oil coolers, and a ton of crap just to get access to the forward wing bolts! You'll need a cradle to set the fuselage on, and a #4000 trailer works best for lowering the wing assy onto, and to pull out from the fues. Removal of the landing gear is also recommended. Door 75 left and right, the big trangular shaped doors, should be removed to remove the utility hyd reserviors, to access two more bolts. Then theres a bunch of close out fairings and such to de-rivet. Piece-of cake!

Good luck,

Pat

Author:	flightsimer [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:04 am ]
Post subject:	Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
As the title says, does anyone know how to remove the wings off of an F-4C phantom? The museum I belong two has acquired one and we are in desperate need of this info. We have removed all the service panels (at least we think we have) but can not figure out how to get them off. We are at the point where will have to cut the wing off if we can't find out soon. What little info we have been give is that they were not designed to be removed, but there has to be a way... The F-4 is currently at Wright Patterson by the museum. We were supposed to have it out of there back in March/April, but we have only gotten the easy stuff. As soon as the wings can come off we can get it back onto our hangar to be restored. Here is our plane: http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Ai ... c5b922aba6 http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Ai ... 13f1f75d08 http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Ai ... 13f1f75d08

Author:	mustanglover [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
flightsimer wrote: As the title says, does anyone know how to remove the wings off of an F-4C phantom? The museum I belong two has acquired one and we are in desperate need of this info. We have removed all the service panels (at least we think we have) but can not figure out how to get them off. We are at the point where will have to cut the wing off if we can't find out soon. What little info we have been give is that they were not designed to be removed, but there has to be a way... The F-4 is currently at Wright Patterson by the museum. We were supposed to have it out of there back in March/April, but we have only gotten the easy stuff. As soon as the wings can come off we can get it back onto our hangar to be restored. Here is our plane: http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Ai ... c5b922aba6 http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Ai ... 13f1f75d08 http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA---Ai ... 13f1f75d08 I have never removed the wings on a Phantom, but I believe that the wing is one piece and the bolts go into the center section box vertically. Probably can be accessed from the engine compartment area. I have heard that it is a HUGE job and not for the faint of heart. Probably easier to place it on a fixture at a 30 degree angle and trucked out with the wings installed.

Author:	The Inspector [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
I would also caution that the attach bolts are probably Taperloks which gain in diameter as you get towards the head end, they CANNOT be driven out from the top, you WILL destroy the structure trying to 'broach' the pin out if you succeed in drilling the heads off. On MDC commercial aircraft, you can loosen the nut until it's flush with the end of the threads (you will need that fastener so do not damage it!!) and when the preload on the part is relieved by shoring or jacking, a couple of sharp raps from a rivet gun using a brass tip on the die, will allow the fastener to 'pop' loose for nut removal and fastener extraction (leaving the nut on gives you a bigger striking surface to cut down on damage to the fastener and keeps the fastener from disappearing after you strike it) an optional method is a socket or sleeve and a clamp to use as a 'driveway arbor press' like you'd use to change a 'U' joint in a driveline. Document where that fastener came from so you can put it back in the same hole as taperloks are individually drilled using a very complex to set up Winslow drill and an adjustable for depth tapered drill bit. Keep us posted on your progress-

Author:	mustanglover [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
The Inspector wrote: I would also caution that the attach bolts are probably Taperloks which gain in diameter as you get towards the head end, they CANNOT be driven out from the top, you WILL destroy the structure trying to 'broach' the pin out if you succeed in drilling the heads off. On MDC commercial aircraft, you can loosen the nut until it's flush with the end of the threads (you will need that fastener so do not damage it!!) and when the preload on the part is relieved by shoring or jacking, a couple of sharp raps from a rivet gun using a brass tip on the die, will allow the fastener to 'pop' loose for nut removal and fastener extraction (leaving the nut on gives you a bigger striking surface to cut down on damage to the fastener and keeps the fastener from disappearing after you strike it) an optional method is a socket or sleeve and a clamp to use as a 'driveway arbor press' like you'd use to change a 'U' joint in a driveline. Document where that fastener came from so you can put it back in the same hole as taperloks are individually drilled using a very complex to set up Winslow drill and an adjustable for depth tapered drill bit. Keep us posted on your progress- I believe you are correct about the tapered fasteners.

Author:	cooper9411 [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
Yes tapered, and hopefully you have about 6 sets of hands!

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Author:	The Inspector [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
mustanglover wrote: The Inspector wrote: I would also caution that the attach bolts are probably Taperloks which gain in diameter as you get towards the head end, they CANNOT be driven out from the top, you WILL destroy the structure trying to 'broach' the pin out if you succeed in drilling the heads off. On MDC commercial aircraft, you can loosen the nut until it's flush with the end of the threads (you will need that fastener so do not damage it!!) and when the preload on the part is relieved by shoring or jacking, a couple of sharp raps from a rivet gun using a brass tip on the die, will allow the fastener to 'pop' loose for nut removal and fastener extraction (leaving the nut on gives you a bigger striking surface to cut down on damage to the fastener and keeps the fastener from disappearing after you strike it) an optional method is a socket or sleeve and a clamp to use as a 'driveway arbor press' like you'd use to change a 'U' joint in a driveline. Document where that fastener came from so you can put it back in the same hole as taperloks are individually drilled using a very complex to set up Winslow drill and an adjustable for depth tapered drill bit. Keep us posted on your progress- I believe you are correct about the tapered fasteners. Do you mean in this application? If you mentioned the word 'Taperlok' around any military airplane types they get all wet and shiny and leave puddles on the floor. I used to teach Douglas commercial and am more than well aquainted with taperloks. It's a subject I pounded into mechanics used to 727, and 737 fasteners.

Author:	flightsimer [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
cooper9411 wrote: Yes tapered, and hopefully you have about 6 sets of hands! We have the manpower plus we have some support from the USAFM, but we just can't do it yet do to the missing info... Mustang, even with the wingtips off (which they already are), it's still too wide/high to transport. Would you have any more info on this like possible manuals or anything that we can look for to do this? Anything that could point us in the right direction would greatly help as we are becoming very time limited as the pentagon has already called. We really hate the idea of cutting the wings off but it might be the only thing that saves this plane. We abandoned an EA-6 prowler because of the same issue because we thought the F-4 would be easier.... Boy were we wrong.

Author:	wingsandrotorspilot [ Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
They are not taper locks bolts. They are NAS 629 bolts, about 16 of them in different sizes. I have removed a couple Phantom wings, not fun. I can send you the copies of the pages from the T.O. if you don't have it. PM me. Pat Rodgers

Author:	flightsimer [ Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
wingsandrotorspilot wrote: They are not taper locks bolts. They are NAS 629 bolts, about 16 of them in different sizes. I have removed a couple Phantom wings, not fun. I can send you the copies of the pages from the T.O. if you don't have it. PM me. Pat Rodgers Pm sent

Author:	wingsandrotorspilot [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
I'll email it off as soon as I get it scanned. about 46 pages. Removal in a nutshell: Remove both engines, both outer wing fold panels, open door 22, the big door forward of the foreward spar, removed all fuel manifolds, lines, both hyd/fuel oil coolers, and a ton of crap just to get access to the forward wing bolts! You'll need a cradle to set the fuselage on, and a #4000 trailer works best for lowering the wing assy onto, and to pull out from the fues. Removal of the landing gear is also recommended. Door 75 left and right, the big trangular shaped doors, should be removed to remove the utility hyd reserviors, to access two more bolts. Then theres a bunch of close out fairings and such to de-rivet. Piece-of cake! Good luck, Pat

Author:	flightsimer [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
wingsandrotorspilot wrote: I'll email it off as soon as I get it scanned. about 46 pages. Removal in a nutshell: Remove both engines, both outer wing fold panels, open door 22, the big door forward of the foreward spar, removed all fuel manifolds, lines, both hyd/fuel oil coolers, and a ton of crap just to get access to the forward wing bolts! You'll need a cradle to set the fuselage on, and a #4000 trailer works best for lowering the wing assy onto, and to pull out from the fues. Removal of the landing gear is also recommended. Door 75 left and right, the big trangular shaped doors, should be removed to remove the utility hyd reserviors, to access two more bolts. Then theres a bunch of close out fairings and such to de-rivet. Piece-of cake! Good luck, Pat Thank you very much! We received word this past weekend that Worldwide aircraft recovery had been hired for us to take it apart. We are now expecting to have it back here by the end of August. However, we will still need to put it back together ourselves.The info will be of great use for us when we put it back together.

Author:	flightsimer [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
Well earlier tonight around dusk, our F-4 rolled in on two trucks straight from Dayton! I wasn't expecting it to be here until tomorrow or Thursday! I only saw it as I was leaving the Chinese place to head back to the airport where I work. I caught a glimpse of something on a trailer and took and double take and realized it was a wing. Looked at the tripuck ahead of it and it was the fuselage. So I got back to the airport entrance and pulled into the museum parking lot. About five other cars saw it coming in and stopped as well. It was pretty cool watching it pull in and knowing in a couple of days I will be able to dig in and start working on it. Pictures tomorrow!

Author:	libra66 [ Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Removing F-4C Phantom wings.
Secondly, if my memory is correct, the F-4 wing is a single piece with a carry through under the intake ducts. There are access panels on the side of the fuselage that should allow you access to at least some of the bolts. The fuselage will have to be lifted off the wing.

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