Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:22 pm
A friend of mine lives on the remains of a WWI era training filed. There is one old run down pre-WWII hanger on the property that his family used to fly Stearman crop dusters out of. He was generous enough to let me move the Lodestar there to keep it out of the weather. The roof leaks pretty bad, but it is better than nothing.
I installed a rear door on the fuselage today and did a crummy patch on the left side where the fire department had installed a large picture window with a cut off saw. I don't think they used a square or a level. Luckily that piece was intact enough to reinstall it. It needs to be patched properly if y'all know of anyone willing to help. I got in the nose and removed a lot of junk modern radio equipment and shelves. That allowed me to partially knock out a huge dent in the nose area. I also cut off some jagged aluminum on the nose. Only 700,000 more dents and holes to go!
I've included two pictures of what it looked like before I did today's improvements, so that you can tell that something has been done.
I only spent about 4 hours working on the Lodestar today, but I can see progress. But, mostly I can see that I have mental issues for wanting to save this turd of a fuselage. Which brings me to my next point. I blew out the bathroom in the rear of the fuselage today. I don't plan on ever putting the bathroom back in service and that got rid of a lot of weight as well as making it possible to get to some of the hard to reach areas in the tail so that they can be patched now. I bet I removed 250lbs of dead weight today.
I installed a rear door on the fuselage today and did a crummy patch on the left side where the fire department had installed a large picture window with a cut off saw. I don't think they used a square or a level. Luckily that piece was intact enough to reinstall it. It needs to be patched properly if y'all know of anyone willing to help. I got in the nose and removed a lot of junk modern radio equipment and shelves. That allowed me to partially knock out a huge dent in the nose area. I also cut off some jagged aluminum on the nose. Only 700,000 more dents and holes to go!
I've included two pictures of what it looked like before I did today's improvements, so that you can tell that something has been done.
I only spent about 4 hours working on the Lodestar today, but I can see progress. But, mostly I can see that I have mental issues for wanting to save this turd of a fuselage. Which brings me to my next point. I blew out the bathroom in the rear of the fuselage today. I don't plan on ever putting the bathroom back in service and that got rid of a lot of weight as well as making it possible to get to some of the hard to reach areas in the tail so that they can be patched now. I bet I removed 250lbs of dead weight today.
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:28 am
Here’s a few random thoughts...
The first place I’d start repairing is the floor, since it will be the main structure everything else is built on.
Assuming the left side piece you reinstalled has fairly close edges, you should be able to put doubler plates behind the edges and countersink/dimple the rivet holes, then repair the cut formers/stringers, then add a little “aerodynamic smoothing putty”, and paint.
The right side is going to need major reconstruction, certainly some jigging, the fuselage may have already twisted from the loss of structure.
Since the fuselage will be oriented in an “in-flight” attitude, the rear entrance door will require a ladder for entry, or you could fab a simple fold out airstair from the current door.
I don’t see any need to keep the main spar. It is just a huge obstacle inside the cabin and the stub wings are of no use. This is assuming the floor structure is strong enough to attach to a car frame without using any spar structure.
How is the overall length? Looks a bit long for downtown driving. If you are still going for the B-25 glass nose effect, you could shave 18 inches off the existing nose and still make a decent glazed nose. The rear 3-4 ft serves no useful purpose currently, so I’d cut that off and build a glazed area with a seat.
I’d also have two plexiglass domes on top, with seats attached to ring mounts, so your pax could enjoy an awesome view while on the road, and when you park it on the ramp at airshows (it’s a photo platform for pros, that you rent out) the domes open up and the photogs mount their 800mm lens on the swiveling ring mount and fire away as aircraft race by. They would have ideal shooting positions, 12ft above the crowds. The tail position could also be used as a photo platform, as could the openable upper nose hatch.
You could rig fold down cots from the ceiling, add a porta-potti, mini fridge, etc, so 4 photogs could use it as a camper while at the airshow, to get those shots before and after the crowds.
I’d use it to travel from one airshow to another. Put banners, advertising the airshow, on both sides, and drive around the city to make some advertising $$$ a few days before the show. Then rent out the vehicle to a group of photogs for the show. After this rig becomes a cash cow, start on the next. Perhaps some WIX folks would enjoy spending a week’s vacation driving this rig, and having the best seats possible at a major airshow.
If you will haul 8+ people, and baggage, then a little math to figure the C.G. is in order. Any idea what the current fuselage weight is? Any thoughts on what kind of truck frame to use? and how to keep cooling air over the radiator? Maybe an older diesel, that will run on any kind of trash fuel, since fuel prices are predicted to hit $5+ per gallon this summer.
End of random thoughts.
If I can swing a temp sheet metal job in Houston, I’ll drag my tools over and lend a hand.
The first place I’d start repairing is the floor, since it will be the main structure everything else is built on.
Assuming the left side piece you reinstalled has fairly close edges, you should be able to put doubler plates behind the edges and countersink/dimple the rivet holes, then repair the cut formers/stringers, then add a little “aerodynamic smoothing putty”, and paint.
The right side is going to need major reconstruction, certainly some jigging, the fuselage may have already twisted from the loss of structure.
Since the fuselage will be oriented in an “in-flight” attitude, the rear entrance door will require a ladder for entry, or you could fab a simple fold out airstair from the current door.
I don’t see any need to keep the main spar. It is just a huge obstacle inside the cabin and the stub wings are of no use. This is assuming the floor structure is strong enough to attach to a car frame without using any spar structure.
How is the overall length? Looks a bit long for downtown driving. If you are still going for the B-25 glass nose effect, you could shave 18 inches off the existing nose and still make a decent glazed nose. The rear 3-4 ft serves no useful purpose currently, so I’d cut that off and build a glazed area with a seat.
I’d also have two plexiglass domes on top, with seats attached to ring mounts, so your pax could enjoy an awesome view while on the road, and when you park it on the ramp at airshows (it’s a photo platform for pros, that you rent out) the domes open up and the photogs mount their 800mm lens on the swiveling ring mount and fire away as aircraft race by. They would have ideal shooting positions, 12ft above the crowds. The tail position could also be used as a photo platform, as could the openable upper nose hatch.
You could rig fold down cots from the ceiling, add a porta-potti, mini fridge, etc, so 4 photogs could use it as a camper while at the airshow, to get those shots before and after the crowds.
I’d use it to travel from one airshow to another. Put banners, advertising the airshow, on both sides, and drive around the city to make some advertising $$$ a few days before the show. Then rent out the vehicle to a group of photogs for the show. After this rig becomes a cash cow, start on the next. Perhaps some WIX folks would enjoy spending a week’s vacation driving this rig, and having the best seats possible at a major airshow.
If you will haul 8+ people, and baggage, then a little math to figure the C.G. is in order. Any idea what the current fuselage weight is? Any thoughts on what kind of truck frame to use? and how to keep cooling air over the radiator? Maybe an older diesel, that will run on any kind of trash fuel, since fuel prices are predicted to hit $5+ per gallon this summer.
End of random thoughts.
If I can swing a temp sheet metal job in Houston, I’ll drag my tools over and lend a hand.
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:42 am
looks better already!
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:17 pm
Tinbender those are some great ideas! I have an astrodome from a c-60 laying around here somewhere that I could reinstall, with hinges of course. I'm a bit concerned about the possibility of some twist that might have occurred due to loss of structure. If it is twisted, I don't think that will be to hard to fix with some jacks, timbers and some temporary tubing braces on the inside until the damage is stabilized. I'm not going to have much time in the next few works to work on it due to the start of my busy season with normal work. The floor is severely damaged where the Chevy truck was driven through the side of the plane. I'm currently trying to find a junk Lodestar out there that might yield a better tail section, but the problem with that is, it would probably be a lot more wise to just start with another fuselage all together. If I can't find someone willing to sell me another tail section, then I'll press on with the repairs on this one.
As far as what the fuselage weighs. I'm guessing it to be around 2500lbs or less now. I have removed a massive amount of debris and weight off of it already. With the exception of where the floor structure is broken near the entry door, the floor structure appears solid and substantial. My plan at this point is to unscrew the floor boards and cut out the roof of the cargo hold. I can visualize two long steel frame rails running under the floor structure that will attach to the original floor with rubber washers etc to prevent electrolisis. I think that would be stronger than 90% of the motor homes on the road. Once the floor boards go back on, there should be no sign internally of the modification. Even the engine should be under the floor. Other than this thing being lengthy, it is much more narrow than a motor home and it should be far less top heavy too(only about 5ft wide). The axles would still be as wide as those on a motor home. I strongly think that it will weigh around the same as the average one ton dually crew cab truck when completed. I'm really going for a big panel truck rather than a heavily loaded motor home.
Even though this plane is really nothing very special at all, I can say that I get a real charge out of sitting in the cockpit and tinkering with it. There is something about making an object that all others have written off as dead come back to life again. It is a weird feeling working on this Lodestar in an abandoned, vine covered, pre-war hanger that hasn't seen an airplane in many years. I'm also doing this on an artist's budget. So this mission is pretty well hopeless but onward I go.
As far as what the fuselage weighs. I'm guessing it to be around 2500lbs or less now. I have removed a massive amount of debris and weight off of it already. With the exception of where the floor structure is broken near the entry door, the floor structure appears solid and substantial. My plan at this point is to unscrew the floor boards and cut out the roof of the cargo hold. I can visualize two long steel frame rails running under the floor structure that will attach to the original floor with rubber washers etc to prevent electrolisis. I think that would be stronger than 90% of the motor homes on the road. Once the floor boards go back on, there should be no sign internally of the modification. Even the engine should be under the floor. Other than this thing being lengthy, it is much more narrow than a motor home and it should be far less top heavy too(only about 5ft wide). The axles would still be as wide as those on a motor home. I strongly think that it will weigh around the same as the average one ton dually crew cab truck when completed. I'm really going for a big panel truck rather than a heavily loaded motor home.
Even though this plane is really nothing very special at all, I can say that I get a real charge out of sitting in the cockpit and tinkering with it. There is something about making an object that all others have written off as dead come back to life again. It is a weird feeling working on this Lodestar in an abandoned, vine covered, pre-war hanger that hasn't seen an airplane in many years. I'm also doing this on an artist's budget. So this mission is pretty well hopeless but onward I go.
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:47 pm
If you don’t have a full-blown sheet metal shop and aircraft structural repair experience, then I’d consider using steel and welding for some repairs, instead of aluminum and riveting, which would probably be 3-4 times more labor.
If you can get the fuselage rainproof, then stopping dissimilar metals corrosion isn’t too hard. Many aircraft manufacturers considers two coats of zinc epoxy polyamide paint on aluminum & steel, and cadmium plating on steel hardware, as sufficient. You could spray an anti-corrosion coating on the lower structure, and add a few drain holes too.
For the heavily damaged right side, perhaps just cut off the most heavily damaged rear fuselage, even 8-10 feet of it, and fab a simple tail turret or tail cone. For a panel truck, you could make a swing away tail cone that exposes a fully open rear bulkhead, easy for loading your tools/equipment if you travel to different jobsites.
I’ll be really interested to see what kind of MPG you get, versus a panel truck with the same engine & drive train.
If you can get the fuselage rainproof, then stopping dissimilar metals corrosion isn’t too hard. Many aircraft manufacturers considers two coats of zinc epoxy polyamide paint on aluminum & steel, and cadmium plating on steel hardware, as sufficient. You could spray an anti-corrosion coating on the lower structure, and add a few drain holes too.
For the heavily damaged right side, perhaps just cut off the most heavily damaged rear fuselage, even 8-10 feet of it, and fab a simple tail turret or tail cone. For a panel truck, you could make a swing away tail cone that exposes a fully open rear bulkhead, easy for loading your tools/equipment if you travel to different jobsites.
I’ll be really interested to see what kind of MPG you get, versus a panel truck with the same engine & drive train.
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:30 am
I don't have the proper aircraft aluminum sheet metal experience, but I do have many years of steel sheet metal experience. I can weld just about anything made of steel, just not aluminum. I had considered making the missing ribs in the tail out of steel and still using aluminum skins, but the idea of all my corroding away scared me away from that idea. I guess as long as it is all painted olive drab on the inside of the plane, most would pay much attention to some of the complicated ribs being made of steel.
I really have my heart set on rebuilding the tail or replacing it with one off of another junk Lodestar. Your idea of the tail cone door is neat too. It would look kind of like a C-119 fuselage ---"Flight of the Phoenix" style.
I really have my heart set on rebuilding the tail or replacing it with one off of another junk Lodestar. Your idea of the tail cone door is neat too. It would look kind of like a C-119 fuselage ---"Flight of the Phoenix" style.
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:45 am
With steel/welding your strong suit, it should work fine for this job. Try some 1" x 2" angle, maybe .040 thick , cut slots into the 2" leg where needed, bend to conform to the fuselage circumference, and weld up the slots. 1"x1" angle for the horizontal stringers. If the existing rivets were countersunk, I’d skip them entirely and weld on steel skins instead of the of existing aluminum. If you need/want to show round-head rivets, I’d use steel closed-end “pop” rivets. While this is an aircraft, for it’s future life, I’d consider it a truck, and use truck building methods and materials. There will always be snobs, happy to criticize every one of your build decisions. I’d just tell them to “Get a Freakin Life”, and move on.
Corrosion is a real issue when mixing steel & aluminum. In addition to the epoxy paint on all inner surfaces, consider dielectric barriers like tar paper or thin nylon sheet between the skeleton and skins. Also dip rivets in wet zinc chromate paint just before installing them. A good (expensive) polyurethane exterior paint will stretch without cracking when the fuselage flexes, and is the greatest defense against corrosion. Because the hangar roof leaks, I’d use a couple of tarps to keep the rain out of the fuselage. Once water gets in, it will be hard to completely get out, considering your climate.
Since the fuselage is only 5ft wide, perhaps you could keep the main spar, add an aft spar, and hang two long external fuel tanks under the wing stubs. They could be used for storage (ice chest/barbeque/etc), with flip-open nose & tail cones and lift-up top panels. You could use the space inside the fuselage, between the spars, for the main gasoline/diesel tank. The tanks would also help keep the C.G. lower, if the entire fuselage will be above the vehicle frame. This might get you close to the 102" max vehicle width.
Corrosion is a real issue when mixing steel & aluminum. In addition to the epoxy paint on all inner surfaces, consider dielectric barriers like tar paper or thin nylon sheet between the skeleton and skins. Also dip rivets in wet zinc chromate paint just before installing them. A good (expensive) polyurethane exterior paint will stretch without cracking when the fuselage flexes, and is the greatest defense against corrosion. Because the hangar roof leaks, I’d use a couple of tarps to keep the rain out of the fuselage. Once water gets in, it will be hard to completely get out, considering your climate.
Since the fuselage is only 5ft wide, perhaps you could keep the main spar, add an aft spar, and hang two long external fuel tanks under the wing stubs. They could be used for storage (ice chest/barbeque/etc), with flip-open nose & tail cones and lift-up top panels. You could use the space inside the fuselage, between the spars, for the main gasoline/diesel tank. The tanks would also help keep the C.G. lower, if the entire fuselage will be above the vehicle frame. This might get you close to the 102" max vehicle width.
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:13 pm
Here was all that I was able to accomplish this weekend. Drilling out hundreds of rivets is almost relaxing. I was able to remove the top nose skin in one piece. I will be able to patch up some of the dents and holes on the bottom of the nose with this skin. I need to slide all of the ribs forward a bit and then I will be on my way to making the nose looking more like a B25. I know this is the last place in the world to start on a project of the scale, but I wanted to do something enjoyable to start. Even though I really should be concentrating on the severely damaged tail area, I'm putting that off in hopes of turning up a tail section somewhere before I start trying to repair this mangled mess. I'm dreaming of course.
Jason
Jason
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:22 pm
I took the Lodestar out to the Lone Star Round Up in Austin, TX, last weekend. People had a blast running around in the plane. I replaced some of the plywood flooring that had been damaged while the plane was in the junk yard. I also wooded over the huge holes in the right side. I made the nose look a little more B-25 like and I added some nose art. I started all of this three days before the show. It was a fairly long drive with a strong cross wind to and from. But it was a lot of fun.
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:39 pm
Lookin' much better! for the inside you might consider (if you can find it cheap enough, or suplus/removed from scrapped freighters) GILLINER, it's really tough stuff, and installs like panelling but it's compressed sheets of fibreglass, it's also semi fire resistant.
That little 350 Hindu sure took me back a ton of years! Weenie little drum brakes and all.
That little 350 Hindu sure took me back a ton of years! Weenie little drum brakes and all.
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:46 pm
Jason, the C-60 is shaping up very nicely! The B-25 nose looks pretty convincing. 
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:06 pm
there is one on ebay right now. c60 in texas. maybe you can get some parts for it.
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:03 pm
I just wanted to share my little piece of the "Big Beat Up Bastard."
When Jason first rescued the Loadstar from the junkyard I asked if he'd be willing to share a scrap or two. He did one better and put together this custom piece of nose art for me! It is actually a piece of skin from the wing.
My wife and I have a cat named Schmew, last time I visited the NMUSAF I found a picture of this nose art on a Korean War era B-29.
This nose art was based on Al Capp's Shmoo character.
So I asked Jason to combine the Big Shmoo nose art with a picture of our cat Schmew...
And this was the result!
Needless to say my wife and I are both thrilled with it.
Thanks Jason!
When Jason first rescued the Loadstar from the junkyard I asked if he'd be willing to share a scrap or two. He did one better and put together this custom piece of nose art for me! It is actually a piece of skin from the wing.
My wife and I have a cat named Schmew, last time I visited the NMUSAF I found a picture of this nose art on a Korean War era B-29.
This nose art was based on Al Capp's Shmoo character.
So I asked Jason to combine the Big Shmoo nose art with a picture of our cat Schmew...
And this was the result!
Needless to say my wife and I are both thrilled with it.
Thanks Jason!
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:49 pm
Oh that is wonderful !!!!!! Love Schmew and love Jason's rendition !!!!!
Re: Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard
Tue May 01, 2012 11:54 am
Here is the final outcome for the Lockheed Lodestar. After getting three tickets from a cop on the way to Austin with the plane on my trailer a few weeks ago I was pretty nervous about transporting it. I decided to take it up to FtWorth this past week to use it as a backdrop to sell my artwork from. I decided to get the proper permits from the state to move it. I was informed that it would cost atleast $500 to do so. So, That popped that bubble. A few hours later the police chief of the ghetto town that I live in shows up to tell me that I can't have an over sized load parked in front of my house and that I would be getting a ticket if it isn't moved. I had it parked in front of my house instead of at the hanger because I had hauled it home to load the plane with art work and supplies for the 5 hour trip to Ft,Worth. At that point the decision was made to remove the entire rear of the fuselage. It was really beat up anyway. I did so while the jerk cop was there. The tail was cut up and it yielded a lot of future art pieces. The police chief was told where to place his ticket because it was no longer an over size load.
I hauled the Lodestar nose all the way to Ft Worth and used it as a backdrop one last time. It has found a new home with the Greatest Generation Aircraft guys. They will mount it on a trailer and display it. I'm pleased with that.
I hauled the Lodestar nose all the way to Ft Worth and used it as a backdrop one last time. It has found a new home with the Greatest Generation Aircraft guys. They will mount it on a trailer and display it. I'm pleased with that.
Last edited by carlisle1926 on Fri May 04, 2012 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.