Hey Gary...
Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:19 pm
What size gloves do you wear? I have some good freebies for ya.
Re: Hey Gary...
Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:28 pm
hahnej wrote:What size gloves do you wear? I have some good freebies for ya.
Hey, thanks! I just sent you a PM.
Gary
Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:51 pm
well with that much hands pain you are doing well Mr Austin ...
Id prolly give up long ago.
Id prolly give up long ago.
Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:13 pm
celebrex, Gary. Celebrex. 
Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:22 am
Yesterday, I had to do several engine runs for Jim Ballard, as he was adjusting some of the fancy electrical items that he'd crammed into that junction box of his that he made for the interior lighting setup, and needed the aircraft's generators online to get this done. I won't get into the complete system, but it's pretty cool. Jim spent many hours working out the best way to get the job done and came up with some pretty clever ideas along the way.
As I went through the engine run process, I took pictures along the way in order to post an update for those of you who would like to learn a little about starting up one of these old radial engines. However, I've been going back and forth in my head about whether I should post this or not, due to the fact that I've learned that engine crank up procedures can be a hot topic for lots of folks. I don't wish to stir up any controversy whatsoever (I have enough drama in my life, thank you). But in the consideration of posting update or not, I decided to go ahead and let y'all see how I do it in this airplane. The procedures below are not meant to slight anyone else's methods or to suggest my way is the best way...it's just the way I've found works best for me, and anyone who's been around when watching me start these things can tell you that my method does seem to work.
So here we go.....
The very first thing that we do, particularly when the engines haven't been run in some time, is to pull the props through. This topic alone could take up it's own thread (and has, I believe), with different ideas, tips, and suggestions. I won't get into explicit detail of the pulling the props through argument, but the basic objective to this step is to insure the engine is clear of any hydraulic lock. If you don't know what hydraulic lock is, I'm sure we could find time on another thread to discuss it in more detail. Anyway, one little pet peeve of mine is when folks "push" the props through, rather than "pull" them. I never really gave this much thought until many moons ago, an old W.W. II instructor pilot friend of mine started telling me stories about how folks were getting whopped in the head and back by propellers when they would push a prop through. Sure, pushing them can be easier sometimes, but it leaves you little way out if the engine just happens to have one cylinder fire unexpectantly (this is particularly an issue on warm engines). I had Mark Baxter pose for the camera to show the two differences of pushing and pulling the propeller. You can see in the first shot, he's pulling the prop through. If the engine were to kick, the theory is that he'd fall backwards, out of the way. It may still sting a bit, but your hands will naturally protect your face, and it may not be a complete disaster.......
In this picture, I had Mark show his position while pushing the prop through. Not much explanation needed here, huh? If that engine were to kick, he'd have an achin' back and head for sure...........
Okay, rant over. I was just trying to make a point.
Once it was confirmed that all of the engines were clear of any hydraulic locks or any other problems, it was time to enter the airplane and make some noise.....beautiful, beautiful noise.
Now remember, this is the procedure I use in this B-24. Just like with flying different airplanes, starting different ones may require slightly different tecniques or strategy.
Step one, fuel tanks selected to the appropriate positions........
Step two, turn on the main battery contactor switch and the starter interrupter switches. All of these switches, along with the fuel selector valves are typically Flight Engineer items on the checklist and are located on the aft wall of the cockpit........
Then I eased my fat *ss into the pilot's seat and turned on the two battery master switches (one for each aircraft battery). These switches are on the overhead panel, between the two pilots........
The next step is to apply the parking brake. If you ever get the opportunity to stand nearby when we crank up this pig, you'll hear a God-awful noise for a few moments, just after the pilots get seated. This is the auxillary hydraulic pump being turned on to build up pressure to hold the brakes. Once the pressure reaches around 800 pounds or so, I go ahead and apply both brakes (with my toes, at the tops of the rudder pedals), and while depressing the brakes, I extend the parking brake handle aft, which sets them. The hydraulic pressure will drop briefly while this is happening, but the aux pump will build the pressure back up and automatically shuts off at roughly 1050 pounds or so. I typically turn the aux pump off at that time, to keep it from chattering as it tries to find a "happy spot" in it's pressure range (once the #2 and/or #3 engines are cranked, the engine driven hydraulic pumps will take over).........
Once the brakes are set, I just typically run all of the engine controls through their control ranges. This is to make sure there are no snags or other surprises before the engines are running. Going through this motion with the throttles is particularly important, in my opinion.........
Before going any further, it's a good idea to have a fire guard available to you. It's equally important to brief what to do in case of a fire! It's a scary thing to watch someone who doesn't know what to do when there's bad things going on, trust me on that one (I'll share that story with y'all some other time). Now, I must admit, I don't always have a fire guard standing there every single time I run an airplane, but it just makes sense to have one there if at all possible........
For safety's sake (in case of fire), I typically start these big, four engined airplanes in the following order: #3, #4, #2, #1. Why? Well, because if I started #1 engine first, followed by #2, and then had a fire in #2 during startup, the fire guard would have no angle to go in to put the fire out with the #1 propeller spinning out there, since he has no choice but to attack the fire from the outboard side. So why start #3 first and not #2 then? Well, at least for me, it's because if the two engines right outside my window were running (remember, I'm sitting on the left side of the airplane), then it might make it more difficult to hear if there were any problems in starting the two engines on the other side of the airplane. Does any of this make sense at all?
Okay, we're getting closer to start up. I advance the throttle on the #3 engine just a bit, to give it some air. You don't want to go too much, as it can cause a nasty backfire. I just happen to know that the position shown in this picture will keep the engine running at about 1,000 rpm, which is ideal for the start up procedure on this engine.....
My next step is to turn the mags on "Both" at this point. This is a step that has many of the old timers rolling their eyes at me. Typically, I think it's safe to say that most folks will motor the engine over with the starter for 6-8 blades, while priming, and then turn the mags on. Why? The only reason that you would turn the engine over with the starter and not have the mags on is so that the engine won't crank immediately if there is a hydraulic lock. Well, if you recall, step one of this process was to clear the engines of any such locks. Sooooo, I personally don't like changing starters and I don't care for spinning an engine around, with little or no oil pressure, for any longer than I have to. That is why I turn the mags on before I start turning the engine over. There are some things to watch for doing this, however, such as if an engine is improperly timed, it can kick back on you (particularly if the engine is warm). So, with everything, just using good judgement is the best method........
Okay, here's where it gets busy. Before doing anything else, make dad-gum sure there's nobody standing around these engines...ALL of them! (you never know if you're going to engage the wrong starter by mistake) Your fireguard should confirm that everything is clear for you.
The first thing in this process is to turn on the fuel boost pump. I opt for the "high" setting, while others prefer the "low" setting. Frankly, for me, the "high" setting seems to do a nicer job of priming the engine, which makes for a quicker start........
And with one hand (and two fingers), you engage the starter while at the same time you start "tickling" the primer. Some folks just hold the primer on steady, others cycle it on and off. I prefer to cycle it, as I feel it gives the supercharger time to disperse the fuel, rather than just dumping it all into the bottom of the blower section. So my method is that while the engine is rotating, I use one second intervals with the primer......"On"...."Off"...."On"...."Off"...."On." Typically, I'd say 95% of the time, these ol' engines will start to run on the primer after the third "On" cycle.......
Now, as all of this is going on with one hand, the other hand should be ready with the mixture lever. These engines start with the levers in the "idle cutoff" position, and should not be started in anything other than that. If so, the carburetor will start dumping fuel into the blower section at a much higher rate than the primer valve does and you'll have an excess of fuel in there, which is a fire hazard. The only time one should start one of these engines with the mixture lever out of "idle cutoff" is when the Japanese are attacking and your primer solenoid isn't working and the only way to get the heck out of there is to do it that way.
Anyway, so as the engine starts to chug and shows signs of life, you need to start slowly and deliberately advancing the mixture lever to at least the "auto lean" position (some folks push the mixture all the way to "full rich," but any extra fuel that may add would seem to load the engine up to me..."auto lean" is plenty).
Now, there is no reason whatsoever to get in a hurry with advancing the mixture lever. You can keep the engine running on just the primer for a while, it's just that the engine isn't all that happy doing it that way. Once the lever is in "auto lean," I get my hand right over to the throttle lever to make sure it's set appropriately. You don't want it to backfire or overspeed, particularly right at start up. Pumping the throttle, like on a car, will not do anything helpful for you. Now, don't take your hand away from the primer switch just yet. Even though the engine thought it was happy with the mixture in the "auto lean" position, you'll likely find that it was just a trick (particularly on a cold engine, or one that hasn't run for some time). It may take a few moments before the engine has "warmed up" enough to stabilize and run on it's own, so a few tickles of the primer valve might be necessary to keep it going in the meantime.
Ahhh, but that's not all that needs to be done. As the engine has started (just as you're ready for the mixture advancement), you should check the oil pressure guage to make sure something's happening there........
And then just take a good look outside at the engine. Don't get too tunnel visioned in the cockpit. Make eye contact with your fireguard! He's there for a reason and may see something you don't. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen a problem with an engine (fuel leak, oil leak, etc.), and the knucklehead in the cockpit is playing with his GPS or something, while I'm trying to get him to shut it down. Look at your fireguard!
Now, assuming everything is going just peachy, what you should expect to see is some nice, white smoke, as the remnants of oil that's collected in the lower cylinders burns off (after all, half the engine is upside down ). Don't be alarmed if, initially, you get smoke from around the cowling as well as out the exhaust. This is generally from joints in the exhaust that haven't expanded from the heat to seal up yet, or from drips of oil on the outside of the exhaust. Either way, it should clear up momentarily..........
Once everything looks stabilized, I go ahead and turn the fuel boost pump off, while monitoring the fuel pressure guage and making sure the engine driven pump is operating correctly.......
Then it's just a matter of going through the same process on the other three engines...........
I typically like to warm the engines up between 1000 and 1200 rpm.
You've got to be careful not to put too much power on it, as the oil is still cold and thick, which builds up too much pressure. Often times, folks just let the engines warm up at idle (500-850 rpm, depending on engine type), but I try not to keep them that low. Why? Well, these round engines have oil scavenge pumps in them to keep the oil from collecting in the bottom of the engine, and if they don't prime themselves (like at low rpm's, for example), the engine will just fill itself up with oil and ultimately deplete deplete the oil tank and/or puke the excess oil overboard and all over your airplane.
And once you've got the engines all warmed up, you can do the runups. On humid days, you can see the vortex from the propellers. It wasn't very humid here in Midland yesterday, but you can just barely see the white vapor coming off the prop tips in this shot.........
Okay, that pretty much explains the startup procedure I use for this B-24. Please remember, that everyone has a different view on things, so there are certainly going to be some folks that disagree with how I'm doing it. That is fine, but I can tell you that this has worked quite well for me, now in my 20th year of messing with these things.
One last thing before I get back to work...while the airplane was outside yesterday, I snapped a few photos of it. I know you've all seen the ground level shots, but since the construction guys were out here working on the hangar roof, I got on their man lift to get some overhead shots of Ol' 927. The airplane is filthy (bird poop and all), but until the airplane flies and we get some air to air or ground to air shots of it, these will have to do.
Gary
As I went through the engine run process, I took pictures along the way in order to post an update for those of you who would like to learn a little about starting up one of these old radial engines. However, I've been going back and forth in my head about whether I should post this or not, due to the fact that I've learned that engine crank up procedures can be a hot topic for lots of folks. I don't wish to stir up any controversy whatsoever (I have enough drama in my life, thank you). But in the consideration of posting update or not, I decided to go ahead and let y'all see how I do it in this airplane. The procedures below are not meant to slight anyone else's methods or to suggest my way is the best way...it's just the way I've found works best for me, and anyone who's been around when watching me start these things can tell you that my method does seem to work.
So here we go.....
The very first thing that we do, particularly when the engines haven't been run in some time, is to pull the props through. This topic alone could take up it's own thread (and has, I believe), with different ideas, tips, and suggestions. I won't get into explicit detail of the pulling the props through argument, but the basic objective to this step is to insure the engine is clear of any hydraulic lock. If you don't know what hydraulic lock is, I'm sure we could find time on another thread to discuss it in more detail. Anyway, one little pet peeve of mine is when folks "push" the props through, rather than "pull" them. I never really gave this much thought until many moons ago, an old W.W. II instructor pilot friend of mine started telling me stories about how folks were getting whopped in the head and back by propellers when they would push a prop through. Sure, pushing them can be easier sometimes, but it leaves you little way out if the engine just happens to have one cylinder fire unexpectantly (this is particularly an issue on warm engines). I had Mark Baxter pose for the camera to show the two differences of pushing and pulling the propeller. You can see in the first shot, he's pulling the prop through. If the engine were to kick, the theory is that he'd fall backwards, out of the way. It may still sting a bit, but your hands will naturally protect your face, and it may not be a complete disaster.......
In this picture, I had Mark show his position while pushing the prop through. Not much explanation needed here, huh? If that engine were to kick, he'd have an achin' back and head for sure...........
Okay, rant over. I was just trying to make a point.
Once it was confirmed that all of the engines were clear of any hydraulic locks or any other problems, it was time to enter the airplane and make some noise.....beautiful, beautiful noise.
Now remember, this is the procedure I use in this B-24. Just like with flying different airplanes, starting different ones may require slightly different tecniques or strategy.
Step one, fuel tanks selected to the appropriate positions........
Step two, turn on the main battery contactor switch and the starter interrupter switches. All of these switches, along with the fuel selector valves are typically Flight Engineer items on the checklist and are located on the aft wall of the cockpit........
Then I eased my fat *ss into the pilot's seat and turned on the two battery master switches (one for each aircraft battery). These switches are on the overhead panel, between the two pilots........
The next step is to apply the parking brake. If you ever get the opportunity to stand nearby when we crank up this pig, you'll hear a God-awful noise for a few moments, just after the pilots get seated. This is the auxillary hydraulic pump being turned on to build up pressure to hold the brakes. Once the pressure reaches around 800 pounds or so, I go ahead and apply both brakes (with my toes, at the tops of the rudder pedals), and while depressing the brakes, I extend the parking brake handle aft, which sets them. The hydraulic pressure will drop briefly while this is happening, but the aux pump will build the pressure back up and automatically shuts off at roughly 1050 pounds or so. I typically turn the aux pump off at that time, to keep it from chattering as it tries to find a "happy spot" in it's pressure range (once the #2 and/or #3 engines are cranked, the engine driven hydraulic pumps will take over).........
Once the brakes are set, I just typically run all of the engine controls through their control ranges. This is to make sure there are no snags or other surprises before the engines are running. Going through this motion with the throttles is particularly important, in my opinion.........
Before going any further, it's a good idea to have a fire guard available to you. It's equally important to brief what to do in case of a fire! It's a scary thing to watch someone who doesn't know what to do when there's bad things going on, trust me on that one (I'll share that story with y'all some other time). Now, I must admit, I don't always have a fire guard standing there every single time I run an airplane, but it just makes sense to have one there if at all possible........
For safety's sake (in case of fire), I typically start these big, four engined airplanes in the following order: #3, #4, #2, #1. Why? Well, because if I started #1 engine first, followed by #2, and then had a fire in #2 during startup, the fire guard would have no angle to go in to put the fire out with the #1 propeller spinning out there, since he has no choice but to attack the fire from the outboard side. So why start #3 first and not #2 then? Well, at least for me, it's because if the two engines right outside my window were running (remember, I'm sitting on the left side of the airplane), then it might make it more difficult to hear if there were any problems in starting the two engines on the other side of the airplane. Does any of this make sense at all?
Okay, we're getting closer to start up. I advance the throttle on the #3 engine just a bit, to give it some air. You don't want to go too much, as it can cause a nasty backfire. I just happen to know that the position shown in this picture will keep the engine running at about 1,000 rpm, which is ideal for the start up procedure on this engine.....
My next step is to turn the mags on "Both" at this point. This is a step that has many of the old timers rolling their eyes at me. Typically, I think it's safe to say that most folks will motor the engine over with the starter for 6-8 blades, while priming, and then turn the mags on. Why? The only reason that you would turn the engine over with the starter and not have the mags on is so that the engine won't crank immediately if there is a hydraulic lock. Well, if you recall, step one of this process was to clear the engines of any such locks. Sooooo, I personally don't like changing starters and I don't care for spinning an engine around, with little or no oil pressure, for any longer than I have to. That is why I turn the mags on before I start turning the engine over. There are some things to watch for doing this, however, such as if an engine is improperly timed, it can kick back on you (particularly if the engine is warm). So, with everything, just using good judgement is the best method........
Okay, here's where it gets busy. Before doing anything else, make dad-gum sure there's nobody standing around these engines...ALL of them! (you never know if you're going to engage the wrong starter by mistake) Your fireguard should confirm that everything is clear for you.
The first thing in this process is to turn on the fuel boost pump. I opt for the "high" setting, while others prefer the "low" setting. Frankly, for me, the "high" setting seems to do a nicer job of priming the engine, which makes for a quicker start........
And with one hand (and two fingers), you engage the starter while at the same time you start "tickling" the primer. Some folks just hold the primer on steady, others cycle it on and off. I prefer to cycle it, as I feel it gives the supercharger time to disperse the fuel, rather than just dumping it all into the bottom of the blower section. So my method is that while the engine is rotating, I use one second intervals with the primer......"On"...."Off"...."On"...."Off"...."On." Typically, I'd say 95% of the time, these ol' engines will start to run on the primer after the third "On" cycle.......
Now, as all of this is going on with one hand, the other hand should be ready with the mixture lever. These engines start with the levers in the "idle cutoff" position, and should not be started in anything other than that. If so, the carburetor will start dumping fuel into the blower section at a much higher rate than the primer valve does and you'll have an excess of fuel in there, which is a fire hazard. The only time one should start one of these engines with the mixture lever out of "idle cutoff" is when the Japanese are attacking and your primer solenoid isn't working and the only way to get the heck out of there is to do it that way.
Anyway, so as the engine starts to chug and shows signs of life, you need to start slowly and deliberately advancing the mixture lever to at least the "auto lean" position (some folks push the mixture all the way to "full rich," but any extra fuel that may add would seem to load the engine up to me..."auto lean" is plenty).
Now, there is no reason whatsoever to get in a hurry with advancing the mixture lever. You can keep the engine running on just the primer for a while, it's just that the engine isn't all that happy doing it that way. Once the lever is in "auto lean," I get my hand right over to the throttle lever to make sure it's set appropriately. You don't want it to backfire or overspeed, particularly right at start up. Pumping the throttle, like on a car, will not do anything helpful for you. Now, don't take your hand away from the primer switch just yet. Even though the engine thought it was happy with the mixture in the "auto lean" position, you'll likely find that it was just a trick (particularly on a cold engine, or one that hasn't run for some time). It may take a few moments before the engine has "warmed up" enough to stabilize and run on it's own, so a few tickles of the primer valve might be necessary to keep it going in the meantime.
Ahhh, but that's not all that needs to be done. As the engine has started (just as you're ready for the mixture advancement), you should check the oil pressure guage to make sure something's happening there........
And then just take a good look outside at the engine. Don't get too tunnel visioned in the cockpit. Make eye contact with your fireguard! He's there for a reason and may see something you don't. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen a problem with an engine (fuel leak, oil leak, etc.), and the knucklehead in the cockpit is playing with his GPS or something, while I'm trying to get him to shut it down. Look at your fireguard!
Now, assuming everything is going just peachy, what you should expect to see is some nice, white smoke, as the remnants of oil that's collected in the lower cylinders burns off (after all, half the engine is upside down
). Don't be alarmed if, initially, you get smoke from around the cowling as well as out the exhaust. This is generally from joints in the exhaust that haven't expanded from the heat to seal up yet, or from drips of oil on the outside of the exhaust. Either way, it should clear up momentarily..........
Once everything looks stabilized, I go ahead and turn the fuel boost pump off, while monitoring the fuel pressure guage and making sure the engine driven pump is operating correctly.......
Then it's just a matter of going through the same process on the other three engines...........
I typically like to warm the engines up between 1000 and 1200 rpm.
You've got to be careful not to put too much power on it, as the oil is still cold and thick, which builds up too much pressure. Often times, folks just let the engines warm up at idle (500-850 rpm, depending on engine type), but I try not to keep them that low. Why? Well, these round engines have oil scavenge pumps in them to keep the oil from collecting in the bottom of the engine, and if they don't prime themselves (like at low rpm's, for example), the engine will just fill itself up with oil and ultimately deplete deplete the oil tank and/or puke the excess oil overboard and all over your airplane.
And once you've got the engines all warmed up, you can do the runups. On humid days, you can see the vortex from the propellers. It wasn't very humid here in Midland yesterday, but you can just barely see the white vapor coming off the prop tips in this shot.........
Okay, that pretty much explains the startup procedure I use for this B-24. Please remember, that everyone has a different view on things, so there are certainly going to be some folks that disagree with how I'm doing it. That is fine, but I can tell you that this has worked quite well for me, now in my 20th year of messing with these things.
One last thing before I get back to work...while the airplane was outside yesterday, I snapped a few photos of it. I know you've all seen the ground level shots, but since the construction guys were out here working on the hangar roof, I got on their man lift to get some overhead shots of Ol' 927. The airplane is filthy (bird poop and all), but until the airplane flies and we get some air to air or ground to air shots of it, these will have to do.
Gary
Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:46 am
Gary, I don't know if it is possible to sum up in words just how great you have the B-24 looking.
Last edited by mustangdriver on Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:06 am
Absolutely beautiful! 
I see "Kilroy" paid a visit to the horizontal stab...
SN
I see "Kilroy" paid a visit to the horizontal stab...
SN
Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:11 am
Steve Nelson wrote:I see "Kilroy" paid a visit to the horizontal stab...
SN
I was wondering how long it would take before someone saw that. For the life of me, I just don't know how that got on there.
But don't tell anyone else. We'll see if they can find it on their own. 
Gary
Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:27 am
You made it into a pretty good looking airplane Gary, thanks. With the star and meatball insignia, isn't the right wing suppose to have one too? I like the Kilroy!
Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:58 am
b29flteng wrote:isn't the right wing suppose to have one too?
Nope.
Well, the right wing does have an insignia, but it's on the bottom of the wing.
Gary
Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:14 am
Awesome Gary !
A short question: Will you be with her at Oshkosh ?
A short question: Will you be with her at Oshkosh ?
Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:40 am
Michel C-GNCJ wrote:A short question: Will you be with her at Oshkosh ?
Well, IF I get it done in time.
Gary
Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:46 am
That plane looks fantastic! The overhead shot is great. Surprisingly, some of the engine run procedures are similar to a Herk...
Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:34 pm
Great job Gary, I hope you let Col Mosquito take that Kilroy shot 
Phil
Phil
Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:48 pm
Gary, Youve done it again !
Explained a complicated procedure, in easy to understand language and with accompanying pictures, brilliant!
Re the Fireguard, I happened to be watching one of our DC3's starting up for a pleasure flight earlier this year, when all of a sudden some flames came out of the exhaust, ''no problem'' thought I ,'just a bit of vapour ,it will blow away in a sec''....
Only it didn't, the engine wouldn't fire and I guess the pilots were still priming it expecting it to start.The flames were getting bigger and were slowly creeping into the,oily, wheel well.
Luckily I had been swotting up on my marshall signals, so I made the fire sign and pointed. Trouble was the exhaust cannot be seen from the cockpit of the Dak and the crew were just looking at the prop waiting for it to start.
I shouted ,'Fire' and kept the symbol going while pointing. The pilot saw me, said 'Fire?'
Then stopped priming but kept the engine turning over,after what seemed an age but was probaly not more than a minute or so, it caught and blew the flames out.
The pilot came up to me afterwards and thanked me and said I did the right thing, which was good of him. A lesson learnt by both of us I think.
Keep an eye out of the cockpit when starting and KNOW YOUR SIGNALS!
Thanks again Gary.
Cheers ,Alan
Explained a complicated procedure, in easy to understand language and with accompanying pictures, brilliant!
Re the Fireguard, I happened to be watching one of our DC3's starting up for a pleasure flight earlier this year, when all of a sudden some flames came out of the exhaust, ''no problem'' thought I ,'just a bit of vapour ,it will blow away in a sec''....
Only it didn't, the engine wouldn't fire and I guess the pilots were still priming it expecting it to start.The flames were getting bigger and were slowly creeping into the,oily, wheel well.
Luckily I had been swotting up on my marshall signals, so I made the fire sign and pointed. Trouble was the exhaust cannot be seen from the cockpit of the Dak and the crew were just looking at the prop waiting for it to start.
I shouted ,'Fire' and kept the symbol going while pointing. The pilot saw me, said 'Fire?'
Then stopped priming but kept the engine turning over,after what seemed an age but was probaly not more than a minute or so, it caught and blew the flames out.
The pilot came up to me afterwards and thanked me and said I did the right thing, which was good of him. A lesson learnt by both of us I think.
Keep an eye out of the cockpit when starting and KNOW YOUR SIGNALS!
Thanks again Gary.
Cheers ,Alan