Gary ~ What's The Plan For Diamond Lil ? 2006 and Beyond!

retroaviation · **Posted:** Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:00 pm

Sasnak wrote:

Does that framework for the window attach from the outside or the inside like you have it? Looking back at the factory picture you posted on page 11, it looks like the framework is on the outside.

Wow, y'all are pretty observant. The original airplanes had the doubler on the outside (like the one I have) and the gun mount hinged on the inside. In looking at some drawings and technical manuals, we initially found that the framework for the gun hinged up with the window and allowed for entry & exit to the rear of the airplane. However, we also have some data that shows otherwise or is inconclusive (much like that photo).

What I will probably be doing is making the hinged arrangement so that we can have an entry point for our aircraft tours. Not to mention that with this open hole and the tailgunner's position, it'll make for a great air to air photo platform. :wink:

Gary

Shay · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:06 pm

Gary

When you mentioned on page 3 that you're looking for .50 cals guns and mounts, what exactly you folks at Midland looking for?

The reason I ask is, at the Liason Fly-in at the NMUSAF this past September I met a gentleman that, he and his son fabricate replicas. They are pretty close to the real thing. I didn't even realize that they were replicas until he mentioned it and I took a closer look. They even have an option for a spark plug, propane firing system. If you like I could track down his contact information for you.

Below is the gentleman's freshly restored Half-track with 4 propane firing .50s. (ignore the big guy blocking the view :wink:

)

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

retroaviation · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 2:02 pm

If you like, please PM me with that fella's information. I am currently working with someone on the armament situation, but we have been tossing the idea around to have a propane gun in at least one of the positions and perhaps charge folks a small fee to be able to come and shoot them.

I appreciate the input.

Gary

Blackwing · **Joined:** Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:10 am **Posts:** 59

Shay, I would be interested in that 50 information as well. If you find it, please pm me also.

N3Njeff · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:18 pm

Nice M16 pic (quad mounted Half-track)
The company is probably IRAC, you can look them up on the internet. They make propane guns out of de-mil .50 cal. Just make sure that you ask about the aircraft versions. Would be kinda funny in seeing a HB ma deuce sticking out of the B-24 positions.

retroaviation · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:52 pm

No real spectacular events to show today, but I'll let y'all see what little bit got done anyhow. Since I am still waiting on parts to complete any of my other projects, I decided to go ahead and start raising the waist gunner's floor back up to it's original height. This one is pure fabrication, as I haven't come across the drawings for it, but also because I need to make storage compartments under the floor for the "garage sale" stuff that we carry along with us on tour. :roll:

So, although it too is not completed (I'm tired and going home for the day), here is the play by play on a floorboard bulkhead...

The first thing I had to do was determine the height the floor needed to be. I did this by clamping a piece of solid, square, aluminum tubing to the existing, correct height, floor structure. I then put a bubble gauge on both the structure and the tubing to ensure they were the same...

The next step was to get the general size of the aluminum needed and cut the blank out. Then I got some posterboard to work with so that I could cut a pattern out for the corners of the aluminum sheet...

Once that is done, I went to the sheet metal brake and bent the top of the sheet 90 degrees at the previously measured location, which if done right, should put the level of the floor right where I want it. I also took a piece of aluminum bulb angle and attached it (with clecos for now) to the bottom of the bulkhead for rigidity and an attach point to the fuselage later...

Here's just an initial test to check the fit...

It's really the little things that take all the time on projects like this. For example, when doing that previous test fit, I noticed that I needed a cutout for some major structural rivets that interfered with how this bulkhead was going to attach. So, after a little thinking (the hardest part for me), I managed to get the measurements that I needed and cut out the area in question...

Here's the area I just described, with the bulkhead in place. Looks like it's gonna work out just fine to me...

I still have some stiffeners and other little odds and ends to do to this piece, and will hopefully get this completed tomorrow morning. I'll give y'all another update whenever something more interesting takes place here.

Gary

retroaviation · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:05 pm

Speaking of floorboards for this airplane, I need some help finding the material they used for it. Do any of y'all out there have any sources for the piece pictured below. It is (obviously) corrugated aluminum which has 1" high corrugations, with 1 3/4" from center to center between each one. I may have to go to Nelson Ezell's shop and just make it myself, but would suuurrre like to find some already made.
Thanks,
Gary

Django · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:24 pm

How the heck would you make that corrugated floor? The bends are too close together for a brake, aren't they?

N3Njeff · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:40 pm

I dont know how much closet space you need but here is a thought. There is a guy that makes reproduction .50 cal wood ammo boxes. Since your going to put her back in Bomber config, you can always pick some up and use them to carry some of your nick nacks and still be on the authentic and useful side..............think it would be funny to see .50 cal boxes being loaded prior departure and there full of t-shirts.

retroaviation · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:50 pm

Well, just this week we looked into what type of ammo box the B-24A had. Naturally, they were different from dang near anything else.

I might very well use the ammo boxes for some sort of storage, but it'll be hidden, I can promise you that. If we must carry that PX junk...I mean stuff, we can at least make sure nobody sees it when walking through the airplane. :wink:

Gary

King · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:48 pm

Django wrote:

How the heck would you make that corrugated floor? The bends are too close together for a brake, aren't they?

It sure as heck wouldn't be fun..........but it's do-able. We made some skins like that (not as deep) for Found Aircraft Corporation but they were longer. Not fun at all, takes a big break!

TimAPNY · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:31 pm

retroaviation wrote:

Well, just this week we looked into what type of ammo box the B-24A had. Naturally, they were different from dang near anything else.

I might very well use the ammo boxes for some sort of storage, but it'll be hidden, I can promise you that. If we must carry that PX junk...I mean stuff, we can at least make sure nobody sees it when walking through the airplane. :wink:

Gary

Junk?! Kid all across America NEED demil'd .50 Shells for there rooms. :lol:

Great job and thanks for all the updates with pictures. I know I really enjoy them and look forward to any news.

Tim

Shay · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:15 pm

N3Njeff wrote:

Nice M16 pic (quad mounted Half-track)
The company is probably IRAC, you can look them up on the internet. They make propane guns out of de-mil .50 cal. Just make sure that you ask about the aircraft versions. Would be kinda funny in seeing a HB ma deuce sticking out of the B-24 positions.

They're not IRAC.

The Gentleman I spoke with was John Cheney. His son, John Cheney II fabricates and builds the replicas. John Cheney II is also the Treasurer of "The Ohio Motor Pool" Chapter of the Military Vehicle Preservation Assoc.

http://www.ohiomotorpool.oldmv.com/

From the conversation I had they never mentioned anything pertaining to demilling actual weapons. What they did say was that these guns were 100% fabricated all that they made all components themselves.

I'll find their contact information.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Lynn Allen · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:17 pm

bdk wrote:

This would make a far better reality show than all those crappy motorcycle shows combined!

Gary Sr. w/tatoo's ????? or Jr and the shades??????

Either way, thanks Gary for your hard work ethic's...

Lynn

Lynn Allen · **Posted:** Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:31 pm

Gary, how about a air brush job to make the bomb bay doors almost real. If they can paint a fake gas cap on the side of a P-51, should be a walk in the park. As for me, I could never color inside the lines anyway....

Lynn

retroaviation wrote:

I'll try to catch up on a few of the questions here...
The bombay door situation is a tricky one for me. There is no doubt that I (along with everyone else) would like to see the bomb doors back on the airplane. The reality is that it would be an extremely daunting task for me and the facilities we have here at Midland. Not impossible, but very difficult. There is simply no way, however, that I could accomplish such a task in one winter alone. We must get this airplane back out on the road in April to help generate funds for both the B-24 and the B-29. So, with that being said, I intend on making something that will simulate the bomb doors for now. That is not to say that I have given up on the idea of installing the original doors, it's just to say that I just don't have the time to tackle such an issue this winter. One must know his limits and the limits of the equipment he surrounds himself with (a saying I use when flying too).

The difficult stuff take a lot of time. The impossible stuff just takes a little longer. ;-)

I will be trying to get in touch with Mr. Kropp this week to hopefully obtain some items of interest for our project. I very much appreciate everyone on this site for helping out with these types of suggestions. This thread has been a good one for me too.

As far as selling the pieces of fabric from the B-24s control surfaces...well, that is certainly something that's been discussed. We also have the same thing from the fabric we took off of FIFI's rudder a year or so ago. I reckon I could also make available to sell, some of the sheet metal pieces from both airplanes that have been removed. We tried selling some of that stuff from FIFI on the B-24 tour this year, but it didn't move that fast. What I do with some of the pieces is give them to the kids that come through the hangar that show an interest in these old airplanes. I know that when I was a kid, that would've been something I'd have kept forever. Anyway, I'll see if we can come up with a price that we can all agree on for the little items like that and put it on the market.

Oh, and BDK, that guy behind the stand with his hands in his pocket is Don. I don't know who the guy is on the floor next to the stand. :lol:

Gary

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