Reverse Engineering Engines

[Enemy Ace]

Just curious if there are any engines out there that are being truly reverse engineered to provide new production engines. I keep hearing that it is maybe happening with some of the German engines such as the DB601, 605 and maybe BMW 801 but I have been unable to confirm this. Any insights would be appreciated.

[JDK]

I think 'reverse engineering' would apply to the work of the Vintage Aviator in New Zealand with the Beardmore and Oberursel rotary. The rotary was a 'new build' of a Great War design (copy, in fact), whereas the Beardmore was a reconstruction.

Great videos and drawings!

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects ... gine-build

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects ... ld-history

[Cvairwerks]

Isn't Jack Rousch building almost everything for a Merlin now? Thought I saw somewhere that they were starting to work on casting new blocks and heads.

[Holedigger]

I recall reading that the Rousch were being built BETTER than new. Using new technology and materials, so actually upgrading parts....carefully, so as not to draw the ire of the FAA

[A2C]

Just curious if there are any engines out there that are being truly reverse engineered to provide new production engines. I keep hearing that it is maybe happening with some of the German engines such as the DB601, 605 and maybe BMW 801 but I have been unable to confirm this. Any insights would be appreciated.

Enemy Ace:

Many people are doing this, for experimental airplanes in the USA and the downunder countries. People build homebuilts, experimental engines and airframes in the USA. I believe the law in the USA is you can't build an experimental part and sell it, it has to go on your own experimental airplane.

Anyway, there's a guy building new parts for the Bristol Centaurus engines, since they're unavailable. There are others looking into building rare Japanese engines for the Zeros and Ki-61's being rebuilt. Why don't you give it try? You could probably find a BMW 801, and with the help of airplane mechanics or other "experts" assemble a test stand and build one up in accordance to the manuals test criteria and laws in your country.

[Enemy Ace]

"You could probably find a BMW 801,"

Ummm well actually.........

The question is should it be sold or used to make patterns..... It just takes cubic yards of money.

[engguy]

Thats a project I plan to do, for retirement, if I ever get a place to do it at. Reverse engineer the prints and dimensions that is.

[bdk]

Thats a project I plan to do, for retirement, if I ever get a place to do it at. Reverse engineer the prints and dimensions that is.

That assumes it was actually built to the prints!

[engguy]

I never said which aircraft engine. And the proper dimensions are available for such things as running parts, because clearances are derived from them. Other dimensions are not something that are changed at all at an overhaul, like cooling fins crankcase dimensions etc. Besides if you have redundant parts on the engine you have plenty to cross refference to. It would be a very time consuming process.

[sdennison]

I recall reading that the Rousch were being built BETTER than new. Using new technology and materials, so actually upgrading parts....carefully, so as not to draw the ire of the FAA

Comment deleted by Me, no offense meant and in the interest of warbirds. I have the utmost respect for Jack and his talented group. Was intended as an innocent question as a "how do they do that"?

Last edited by sdennison on Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[51fixer]

I recall reading that the Rousch were being built BETTER than new. Using new technology and materials, so actually upgrading parts....carefully, so as not to draw the ire of the FAA

So does Jack PMA everything he makes for the engines? Where's the fine line?

Careful making statements like this as this might draw undeserved attention from the FAA.
After installing 2 Roush overhauled Merlins and visiting his facility and hangar you will see that your comment isn't right and ought to be edited out.
He operates the only FAA Repair Station for the repair and overhaul of the Merlin in the World. Being a repair station he has developed procedures by using the original overhaul and repair manual and his own methods which have to be approved by the FAA. His shop and customer engine holding area are secured as required by the FAA regs.
He has a DAR on staff in addition to all the technical people in other parts of his organization. The equipment used in state of the art and the people using them are well trained.
Every modern designed part is PMAed. There isn't a fine line. It is either an original or a new part. If it is new he gets a PMA for it. He also has many advanced repair methods that are approved. I've seen where he has welded up crank cases where a chunk was knocked out by a rod. The heads in our last rebuild had around 40 weld repairs made. His pistons and rings are used by other engine builders. He won't install parts that require a 337 as a 1 time field approval.
When you receive an engine you get a notebook an inch thick with reports and docs on every piece in the engine. You know who did what and the dimensions of critical parts. There isn't any hiding of anything and nothing I can find should promote the Ire of anyone, FAA or other.
Any problems have been taken care of at the time and expense of Roush. His guys have traveled at a moments notice to take care of other engines other than Roush as well.
He uses his own aircraft as a test bed in developing parts and repair methods.
Supervisor of the shop, Big Jim has taken time to answer and research many of my questions, even if it related to someone else's engine.
Just realize on the Internet big brother is watching and comments made could unjustly cause misery.
Rich

[spaltring]

hello,
there is a guy in germany who's casting DB parts and jumo211.
those DB 605-601 parts looks like the originals but of course there is a price to be payed.

[spaltring]

for those who are intersted in german luftwaffe parts repros i found this people
www.arsenal-45.de
its in german ,
but maybe they can understand english