Airbus incident- don't rely on the parking brake?
Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:19 pm
Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:05 pm
Sadly, it comes down to poor testing procedures. You cannot count on just chocks and brakes to hold the plane (especially when doing power runs like that) and thus when the brakes failed (or were accidentally released), the plane inevitably jumped the chocks and they were unable to stop. That's why I always liked the way our company did it- anything over half power (which was the point where the plane would jump the chocks without brakes applied) were done out on the runway or in the open run-up area where the plane had open area in front of it to coast itself to a stop in case the brakes failed or were accidentally released. Had we been forced to do a runup in an enclosed area, we would have used straps and tied the mains down to in-ground anchors. Either way, the idea was that if the brakes failed, the plane wouldn't hit anything.
Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:08 am
I used to do engine runs on both the A-7D and A-10A, and military had policies about full engine runs. The A-7 we had to be in a test cell with huge oversize wheel blocks taller than the tires, and the hook down. For the A-10, you could only take one engine to 100% in chocks. If both engines needed full power, it was out to the pad and tied down to big bolt in the ground with cables to the main gears.
Never had a runaway.
Never had a runaway.
Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:55 am
See what happens when you do!
OLD PICTURES OF US AIR PARKING BRAKE SET BEFORE LANDING
Steve
OLD PICTURES OF US AIR PARKING BRAKE SET BEFORE LANDING
Steve
Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:38 am
wonder how many passengers had heart attakcs on that landing?
Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:11 pm
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!
Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:04 am
I've been ground man for a chock-jumping party that ended uneventfully-thank goodness. Our ace left-seater simply "forgot" to set the park brake before bringing the power up, after being challenged by the right seat guy.
Wooden chocks flying all over will absolutely get your attention IMMEDIATELY!
Wooden chocks flying all over will absolutely get your attention IMMEDIATELY!
Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:58 pm
The pilot probably had a bet to make the 1st turnoff.
Rich
Rich
Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:59 pm
Back in the early 90's, there used to be a B-25 based in Kansas City ...Fairfax Ghost....(now with Red Bull)....The B-25 had just recieved a new engine on one side, the crew was breaking the new engine in...the pilot powered up....jumped the chalks.....and proceeded in chewing up the new Toyota sports car the pilot left parked directly in front of the plane...trashed the engine and the prop...Car...and the pilots future from ever flying the B-25 again.....but on the bright side...for a non-combatant B-25, it now has one confirmed kill.....
Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:56 pm
planeoldsteve wrote:See what happens when you do!
OLD PICTURES OF US AIR PARKING BRAKE SET BEFORE LANDING
Steve
Holy Schnikes Batman!
Which switch is used to set the parking brake before landing? Where is that question on the check list? 
Parking brake set? Roger. (and don't call me Roger, Shirley)
Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:39 am
This is what our maintenance instructor warned us about, the difference between an Airbus and a Boeing. Simplistically put, the Airbus computers will over-ride what the pilot wants if it is out of configuration as in the 340 incident above and the 320 crash back in the 90s at a media event in France where they plowed through some trees. In a Boeing product the pilot will always be able to over-ride what the computer is doing if the pilot has it in an odd configuration. This is why I'm concerned about using the A330 for our next gen tanker. Remember the old joke about a computer, "nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong"....
Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:27 pm
B29flteng...
You've bought into common misconceptions about Airbus aircraft. I don't know the story about the A340 engine run/jumping chocks and going up on that concrete partition. I do know something about the A320 that turned into a weed-eater in France.
That accident was purely pilot error; not the airplane's fault one bit. Just like a Boeing, you push the power levers up to TOGA, that is where the thrust goes to. Those pilots didn't understand the relationship between autothrust and AOA/airspeed protections in the Airbus.
They simply pulled the stick back thinking the airplane would climb. Nope, the airplane was in the landing config below 100 RA and they did nothing with the thrust levers. Well, yeah, the airplane is going to continue straight ahead at min speed, max AOA, under full control (which it did).
If they had simply added power, just like any other airplane, it would have done what any other airplane would have done.
The Embraer deal with the parking brake on landing.... Again, I don't know much about that one, either. What I do know is the flight crew was apparently trying to fool the ACARS while inflight, and they were setting the parking brake in flight and pulling certain circuit breakers. That doesn't seem like such a good idea.
Anyway, people that malign Airbus products don't really know a lot about them. Take a little time to dig deeper and find out the how and the why. They are not bad airplanes.
You've bought into common misconceptions about Airbus aircraft. I don't know the story about the A340 engine run/jumping chocks and going up on that concrete partition. I do know something about the A320 that turned into a weed-eater in France.
That accident was purely pilot error; not the airplane's fault one bit. Just like a Boeing, you push the power levers up to TOGA, that is where the thrust goes to. Those pilots didn't understand the relationship between autothrust and AOA/airspeed protections in the Airbus.
They simply pulled the stick back thinking the airplane would climb. Nope, the airplane was in the landing config below 100 RA and they did nothing with the thrust levers. Well, yeah, the airplane is going to continue straight ahead at min speed, max AOA, under full control (which it did).
If they had simply added power, just like any other airplane, it would have done what any other airplane would have done.
The Embraer deal with the parking brake on landing.... Again, I don't know much about that one, either. What I do know is the flight crew was apparently trying to fool the ACARS while inflight, and they were setting the parking brake in flight and pulling certain circuit breakers. That doesn't seem like such a good idea.
Anyway, people that malign Airbus products don't really know a lot about them. Take a little time to dig deeper and find out the how and the why. They are not bad airplanes.
Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:17 pm
Trashed the tires on that Embraer!
Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:07 am
...and two pilot careers!
Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:08 am
...and two pilot careers!