Warbird Information Exchange

A F-22 has finally been shot down by a F/A-18 in combat trials i have just been told.

I wonder if this could be a reason for cancelling the F-22..if a F/A-18 can kill a F-22 it shows something gone wrong. Normally lately ive heard F-22 kills everything in test Red games... hmmmm

The absolutely 100% cast iron guaranteed invulnerable always victorious aircraft has yet to fly! The F-22 is good, very good, maybe even the best aircraft in the world but it won't and can't win every single contest, as there is a human being in the cockpit. The hyperbole surrounding this aircraft is mostly from woefully uninformed and over-excitable journalists.

In this exercise, the ROE was radar off. For the F-22, its like entering the fight with gear down.
(However, this is really a Pentagon ploy. If everyone thought the Raptor was invincible, nobody would come up and fight. With no one to fight, no kills are made and then the politicos say "It is not worthy, it never shot down any aircraft"........see my drift?)

VL

As Hacker stated in another thread, it's always *possible* for an inferior aircraft to shoot down a superior aircraft. It could be due to a difference in pilot skill level, effective use of terrain masking and/or electronic countermeasures to enable a surprise attack, one good guy being swarmed and overcome by a larger number of bad guys, and so on. As they say in football, "On any given Sunday...". However, I wouldn't count on there ever being many F-22s shot down in combat, even by the best "the other side" can put up. It's truly a world-beater, and very likely the all-around best fighter aircraft ever fielded by any country.

Cheers,

_________________
Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida

The F-22's been "shot down" quite a bit by F-15's and F-16's during the development and initial deployment. Again, the ROE was knife fights or IR fights where it comes down as much to pilot skill as anything else. That's why F-14's could be regularly "downed" by F-5's and F-4's could be regularly downed by Hawker Hunters. When you can't use the "Ace-in-the-Hole", it puts the experience of the pilot with the plane in the forefront.

the f-22 might be shot down a little more, & in quantity, secretary of defense gates wants to cut the quantity the usaf wants because of the high price of $$ 140 million dollars a copy. gates wants to buy less techy more practical weapons. he also wants to bag obama's new presidential chopper fleet, a move which obama himself approves of. it's all the in the cause to save government money in this crapped out economy. his contention is that the f-22 can't find road side bombs in iraq & afghanistan.

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

I'd like to hear Randy's opinion on this one. Mine? I think the price tag is pretty steep and thats all they are looking at. but then I heard that Gates wants to keep the F-35 program going so who knows?!

I also agree that its the pilot in the cockpit that makes a fighter deadly - the wildcat was one on one out classed by the Zero but throw in Ed Thatch and BAM - using the Thatch weave wildcats became deadly!

Tom P[/i]

all I can say is that the capabilities of that aircraft are well beyond the current line fighters if all other scenarios are equal. Why you would consider it a failure in this particular test ROE is beyond me.

My feelings are pretty simple: the Raptor is simply the finest fighter aircraft on the face of the planet. It outclasses it's nearest competitors by miles. I have seen 2 of them wipe the floor with 12 F-15s trying their hardest (no restrictions) to kill them.

IMHO, it is absolutely worth every penny it costs.

Anytime one throws politics into defense spending, it can get scary! Coming up on WW2, the Brits and their available Spitfire/Hurricane Squadrons were wrapped up in politics big time. Fortunately, enough politicians saw the writing on the wall and got behind the RAF. They still were caught short, but not as short as they might have been. It is hard to convince some to spend when there isn't a shooting war at hand. The F-22 would scare many AF's to just stay home.....isn't that enough of a deterant?!