Warbird Information Exchange

I can have some sympathy with the US people being sorry for loosing such a great contract, but really, you're buying an aircraft from a company based in countries which is supposed to be your allies - not your enemies - which is somewhat the way it sounds when listening to some of you.

Secondly, if you add up the amount of dollars spent by US for European armaments and then add up the dollars spent by the same European countries for US armaments I'm quite sure that the Europeans spend much more dollars in US than you do in Europe, so who should really be crying about spent tax dollars in a foreign country?

What always facinates me is how US military projects can be so expensive. Has any project actually been delivered on budget? My guess is that you could/should get much more "bang for the bucks" from your own Armament companies by being better procurers not wasting your precious tax dollars.

I'm from and live in Alabama. Mobile as the center for whatever assembly work for the A330 is as deserving as Seattle for something good to happen. In the past 12 months the greater Mobile (properly pronounced Mo-beal, not as in transportable) has received good news 2 times. They are the new selected location for a Thyssen-Krupp Steel Plant that will emply 2700 people and now the Northrop-EADS deal.

Mobile had been on the short end in base closures and even hurricanes and its about time good things happened.

By the way I live 5 and a half hours to the north of Mobile.

I don't mind the USAF buying a foreign designed aircraft...but I think American workers are coming out on the short end of the deal.
Is it too much to ask for lots of offsets, the way American companies are when they sell something overseas?

I have no idea how the proposal reads, but if they aren't there, I hope they're added. Congress needs to go over this with a fine tooth comb.

I have the feeling the US workers in Alabama...typically a low wage area...will be doing screw & bolt work while all the high value parts (less engines and avionics) are done offshore.

I hope I'm wrong but the US workforce will be basically fast food workers with tool belts...
BTW: How can N-G make a profit by the time a new factory, shipping costs and the weak dollar are taken into account?

Sounds like someone bid artifically low to get a foot in the door and the proices will be jacked up on subsequesnt buys. It's happened before...

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

This has been a great debate! I have felt like I got kicked in the gut by my government like when I look at my pay check and see how much they take every pay period, however I have taken a few days to sit back and really think about it and really think about what the WIXXER's have said, and all have good points! We can argue about who makes the best airplane all day and that would be great and it is very possible that the A330 could be the greatest thing since the Wright flyer, I don't know that answer. It all comes down to pride in what we make and how the services like it, if they like it then it must be good. Only time will tell. As far as bang for the buck all I have to say about that is JDAM Thank you everyone for contributing to a fantastic debate and thank you for keeping it civilized because thats what makes most of this world great we can be p@$$ed about something and not get hostile we can agree to disagree and move on. I do have one more question for everyone how much demand will the USAF have for an air tanker when it is very clear we are moving to an all UCAV and UAV force

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" excuse me stewardess I speak jive"

Alabama may be a lower wage area these days than say a Seattle, but the jobs being attracted over teh last 20 years are certainly not low wage. Alabama over the last 20 years or less has attracted foreign industry like Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai as well as Thyssen-Krupp and others because Alabama is a Right-To-Work State and is and has been unfriendly to unions. (All Delta IV and Atlas V launch vehicles are made in Alabama, as well as AMRAAM and Patriot)

Many companies, in many sectors, are looking South, not just to Alabama, because of lower tax bases, lower cost of living, and incentives being thrown around by State and Local governments to attract this type of industry and jobs. Plus, you have a large engineer base in the State univeristy systems.

Don't sell Alabama short, remember it was Huntsville, Alabama's Marshall Space Flight Center and Redstone Arsenal that put america's first satellite into orbit, our first astronaut into space and man on the Moon.

Sen. John McCain said Tuesday his inquiries into a $35 billion Air Force tanker contract were designed to assure evenhanded bidding and denied they were motivated by lobbyists who are close advisers to his presidential campaign.
some of his current advisers lobbied last year for the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co., the parent company of plane maker Airbus. EADS and its U.S. partner Northrop Grumman Corp. beat Boeing Co. for the lucrative aerial refueling contract.
According to lobbying records filed with the Senate, Loeffler Group lobbyists on the project included Loeffler; Susan Nelson, who left the firm and is now the campaign's finance director, and former Secretary of the Navy William Ball III, who has campaigned for McCain. EADS also had a long-term relationship with Ogilvy Government Relations, formerly known as the Federalist Group. Ogilvy lobbyist John Green, who records show worked on the EADS account, recently took a leave of absence to volunteer for McCain as the campaign's congressional liaison
McCain, in his letter to Gates on Dec. 1, 2006, said the proposed bid request "may risk eliminating competition before bids are submitted." The Air Force changed the criteria four days later
EADS also wanted the Pentagon to factor into the bidding process the ability of the new tanker to carry cargo and passengers. The Airbus proposal called for a much bigger plane than the 767 offered by Boeing. In his letter to Gates, McCain urged the Pentagon to write bid requests that would take into account the various capabilities of the tanker plane
Nearly two months later, Gates replied that the Air Force had made changes "responsive to the concerns identified in your letter."
EADS' interest in the tanker deal is evident in the political contributions of its employees. From 2004 to 2006, donations by its employees jumped from $42,500 to $141,931, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics. So far this election cycle, company employees have donated $120,350. Of that, McCain's presidential campaign has received $14,000, more than any other member of Congress this election cycle

This is getting very interesting

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" excuse me stewardess I speak jive"

"No question McCain intervention helped Airbus"

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/ABC_McCai ... _0313.html