gear up C-17 Bagram AB
Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:47 am
pictures @ http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/C1 ... 804-1.html
Serious Question: How does this happen? USAF does terrific training...
Serious Question: How does this happen? USAF does terrific training...
Re: gear up C-17 Bagram AB
Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:03 am
ww2John wrote:pictures @ http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/C1 ... 804-1.html
Serious Question: How does this happen? USAF does terrific training...
Has the cause been released? I thought somebody in the C-17 community mentioned it was mechanical?
Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:07 am
Here is another article,
http://www.ianbell.com/2009/02/07/anoth ... at-bagram/
and it kind of begs the question of just what is going on over there!?!? This is ANOTHER bad landing there in a short time period. Pilots over-worked? Aircraft over-stressed? Just plain STUPID?! What is going on? Is it just the volume of traffic overloading the whole system....and "they" want to double the number of boots on the ground. This sounds like big trouble in the making. Supplying an army just by air is a recipe for disaster....Stalingrad.....North Africa....(OK, Berlin worked, but they weren't being actively shot at)
http://www.ianbell.com/2009/02/07/anoth ... at-bagram/
and it kind of begs the question of just what is going on over there!?!? This is ANOTHER bad landing there in a short time period. Pilots over-worked? Aircraft over-stressed? Just plain STUPID?! What is going on? Is it just the volume of traffic overloading the whole system....and "they" want to double the number of boots on the ground. This sounds like big trouble in the making. Supplying an army just by air is a recipe for disaster....Stalingrad.....North Africa....(OK, Berlin worked, but they weren't being actively shot at)
Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:21 am
Glaringly obvious with the gear handle in the up position!???
Re: gear up C-17 Bagram AB
Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:22 am
ww2John wrote:pictures @ http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/C1 ... 804-1.html
Serious Question: How does this happen? USAF does terrific training...
Because the USAF don't use Flight Engineers any more. Less eyes in the cockpit.
Of course it wasn't the pilots fault, the sun was in has eyes.
Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:27 am
I guess the C-17 production line is being kept open for new spare parts now 
Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:33 am
Instead of the check list last item saying - "Holiday pass to Hilton Kabul". how about scratching that out and putting - "3 greens and double check" on it instead?
Might make wonders for the USAF AMC bottom line for repairs...
How 2 pilots, a tower, air force people and computer systems could fail 2 times to get 3 greens light and corresponding gear droppings to not happen so easily is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.
How does RAAF , RAF, RCAF or NATO expect to trust a C-17 now if this is happening so often to US birds?
Might make wonders for the USAF AMC bottom line for repairs...
How 2 pilots, a tower, air force people and computer systems could fail 2 times to get 3 greens light and corresponding gear droppings to not happen so easily is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.
How does RAAF , RAF, RCAF or NATO expect to trust a C-17 now if this is happening so often to US birds?
Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:02 am
I know there are some C-17 crew members who frequent the board, but I'm gonna try to get ahold of a friend that I used to go to school with who used to be a C-17 mainainter. Cause to me it looks as though the gear doors are all open... anyone else seeing that?
Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:03 am
flyingheritage wrote:
How does RAAF , RAF, RCAF or NATO expect to trust a C-17 now if this is happening so often to US birds?
Just bring back the C-133's and C-141's!
Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:08 am
flyingheritage wrote:How does RAAF , RAF, RCAF or NATO expect to trust a C-17 now if this is happening so often to US birds?
Maybe they can tell it wasn't the aircrafts fault.
pilot error---pilot fatigue...
Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:17 am
there is a time honored saying "there are those who have landed gear up and those who WILL eventually land gear up" no I haven't done it ...YET. but then I've "jettisoned" an aircraft once....and now i'm an inch shorter!
Last edited by jet1 on Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:29 am
Yea, there seems to be a rush to put blame on pilot or airplane. The number of such events that happen are very small compared to the total number of flights.
There is a reason why they call the "accidents" and not "on purposes". Murphy dictates that some of these will happen no matter what precautions are taken.
There is a reason why they call the "accidents" and not "on purposes". Murphy dictates that some of these will happen no matter what precautions are taken.
Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:57 am
The gear handle being in the 'UP' position could be a result of a checklist procedure due to a hydraulic or indiciation fault. Just because the picture shows the 'UP' handle position does not indicate pilot error. The relative 'newness' of this aircraft means that there are many systems that would give you an EICAS and/or audible warning as to the gear being up before landing, such as throttle position switches, configuration warning messages thru the fault warning computer, and even the radar altimeter, which is tied in to the avionics and FWC.
Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:06 am
This is not a "second accident ". I believe they are pictures taken of the "only incident ". They surfaced about the time that the USAF public affairs released the story about the team that removed it from the runway. I'm sure that Brad could enlighten us more.
As for the gear doors being open, I think they are composite and dragging them down the concrete would probably force them to the open position !
As for the gear doors being open, I think they are composite and dragging them down the concrete would probably force them to the open position !
Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:05 pm
Made several trips to Bagram last year. It ain't like going to Kham Duc in 1968, but it's not like the visual into Memphis, either.
Although we don't know the cause yet, if they screwed up then they are another set of pilots on the long list of those who have. Doesn't make it right, only makes 'em human. I hope I never find out how it feels.
If the C-17 is anything like the Herk, they have way too many steps on their before landing checklist - which distract from the simple goal of gear and flaps. Rather than spend the time and $ to really train folks to be the best, the $ is spent on more complicated checklists to legally CYA for every scenario. The AF and society in general is so enamored with high technology that we're now serving the technology rather than having it serve us.
Will wait to see what the accident board has to say.
Ken
Although we don't know the cause yet, if they screwed up then they are another set of pilots on the long list of those who have. Doesn't make it right, only makes 'em human. I hope I never find out how it feels.
If the C-17 is anything like the Herk, they have way too many steps on their before landing checklist - which distract from the simple goal of gear and flaps. Rather than spend the time and $ to really train folks to be the best, the $ is spent on more complicated checklists to legally CYA for every scenario. The AF and society in general is so enamored with high technology that we're now serving the technology rather than having it serve us.
Will wait to see what the accident board has to say.
Ken