A Few For The B-17G Mickey Radar Gurus

[RAMC181]

Well, this has kicked off my big PFF Fort listing project......
3 days in, I now have 229 PFF-equipped B-17Gs listed by block, serial number, unit and fate etc.

One thing that has just turned up which may be related to 44-8588's appendages:

B-17G-50-VE
44-8189
15AF, 2BG, 429BS.
Amendola, Italy.
Crash-landed 13 Nov 44.
PFF. Fitted with Tail Warning Radar.

TTFN,
PB

[RAMC181]

Ok, as it's just coming up to 10pm on a Sunday evening, here's the weekend PFF report:

PFF B-17G List: Current Status = 301 entries.

On Chuckie's twin aerial masts, I found this photo, the only one I've seen so far showing a PFF Fort with what appears to be two masts.
Apologies for the quality of the image:



Now, here's something that could put the cat amongst the pigeons with a current restoration..... note the serial number.
H2X radome or ball turret?



The 388BG Aircraft Listing says this was a PFF aircraft, but the MACR apparently lists a ball turret gunner on the crew.

TTFN,
PB

[Second Air Force]

Well, I knew I'd seen that twin fin antenna installation somewhere besides Chuckie. Am I seeing things, or is there a little bump at the bottom of the tail turret dome on the 487th Group airplane like the one we've been discussing elsewhere?

On that second photo, do you suppose the crew took their original ball gunner along so he could get in his missions with his "family"? Also, does the MACR say anything about a radar operator?

Very interesting stuff, Paul. I can't get enough.
Scott

[Rogue]

Wasn't the earlier British H2S radar tried on B-17s, mounted in place of the chin turret?

There are some good pics of the chin it at the bottom of this page.

http://www.p40warhawk.com/WW2_Era/Photo ... eDietz.htm

[RAMC181]

On that second photo, do you suppose the crew took their original ball gunner along so he could get in his missions with his "family"? Also, does the MACR say anything about a radar operator?

I've finally had a chance to read the MACR properly.

9 persons on board:
Pilot
Co-pilot
Navigator
Nose Gunner
Radio Operator
Engineer / Top Turret Gunner
Ball Turret Gunner
Waist Gunner
Tail Gunner

The MACR also lists 12 .50 cal Brownings by serial number and manufacturer, so a full complement allowing for a removed radio room gun.

From the evidence in the MACR I have to conclude that when 42-97542 went MIA she wasn't PFF equipped, nor was she carrying a lead or backup lead crew.

All the best,
PB

[Second Air Force]

Well, maybe we were actually looking at a ball turret in that photo, huh? It sure looks like a radome to me, but I could be incorrect. After studying all the photos you've posted of PFF Forts and staring at our airplane I can see that you could de-modify an airplane to the "stock" configuration, but why would you? An interesting mystery, that one. Additionally, the nose gunner was evidently assigned the bombardier/togglier duty in addition to navigating, further confirming that she wasn't being used as a Pathfinder.

Scott

[RAMC181]

More Mickey-related modifications.........

42-97627


42-97600 (See Intel Report below)


44-8812 (probably)


44-8789


Every PFF-equipped B-17 I've found a decent underwing photo of recently has these antenna fitted, the last one having two sets.
What are they? Well, they are the paired antenna for the SCR 718 Radar Altimeter.

All the best,
PB

Last edited by RAMC181 on Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Second Air Force]

We'll be spending some quality time with the Fortress this week and I'll see if the doublers are still on her for these antennae.

Scott

[Second Air Force]

Well, Paul, here is the evidence. I shot these three photos this evening of the right wing of Chuckie. It turns out that she had the twinned antenna layout on each wing. Steve Swift assisting with the gloved hand, shooting inboard:


The leading edge of the wing is toward the bottom of this photo. Notice that there are three screws above and below each little plate. These are the screws fixing the inner doubler to the skin to reinforce the area.


We pulled one of the cover plates off to study what was under it, and a nice antenna coax cable hole emerged:


The more stuff Paul unearths with his research, the more correlations we find on '543. She seems to have gotten all the bells and whistles when she was converted to a PFF ship.

Scott

[RAMC181]

Glad they turned up where they should have been Scott.

As promised, here's the verbatim list of radio equipment found in PFF ship 42-97600 from the German intelligence report which kicked off the search for the antennae. They seem to have found the data plates very useful......
Unfortunately it doesn't say where in the aircraft all the parts were, so we can assume the GEE box was over the Navigator's table but whether the radar altimeter was there or by the Mickey Operator's station is unknown.

(Annotations in brackets by me, to clarify what's what).

Antenna mast with suspending transmitter
and distributer box.

J / 15 APS - 15 (Junction Box J-15/APS-15)
115 / 1 / 400 TO 2400

Transmitter:
RT - 15 / APS - 15 (Transmitter Converter RT-15/APS-15)
MD - 4 / APS 2 (Modulator for above)

Switchboard:
C - 33 A / APS - 15 (Control Unit C-33/APS-15)

****** *******:
CP - 3 / APS - 15 (Computer CP-3/APS-15)

Driftmeter:
R - 70 / APS - 15 (Receiver-Indicator R-70/APS-15)

Branch Driftmeter with Camera:
I D - 30 A / APS / 2 D (Plan Repeater Indicator-PPI ID-30A/APS-2D)

Camera Air Craft:
Type K 24

1 Impus Center:

1 panel with 4 instruments:

1 Transformer:
Inverder Unit
P e - 218 - C (Inverter Unit PE-218-C, part of Radar Set APQ-13)

Optical Devise:
Indicater
1 - 152 / A (Indicator I-152-A, part of SCR 718-AM Radar Altimeter)

1 Transmitter/Receiver:
Radio Receiver and Transmitter
B C - 788 - A (Radio Receiver and Transmitter BC-788-A, part of SCR 718-AM Radar Altimeter)

Amplifier:
A M 19 / APA - 14 (Torque Amplifier AM-19/APA-14, APS-15 Antenna Azimuth Stabiliser)

1) Radio Receiver BC-966-A (IFF Transponder)
2) Receiver Type R-1355 (GEE Receiver)
3) Radio Receiver BC-348-R (SCR-287 Liasion Radio Set Receiver Unit)
4) Radio Transmitter BC-375-R (SCR-287 Liasion Radio Set Transmitter Unit)
5) Antenna Tuning Unit BC-305-B (presumably a typo, BC-306 is a tuning unit, BC-305 is an interphone unit)
6) Radio Receiver BC-357-P (RC-43 Marker Beacon Receiver)
7) Dynamotor Unit Type 5016A (AKA PE-94-C)
8 ) Indicator Type 62 (GEE Indicator)
9) Radio Receiver BC-733-D (SCS-51 ILS Receiver)
10) Radio Transmitter BC-457-A (SCR-274-N Command Radio Set Transmitter)
11) Radio Transmitter BC-458-A (SCR-274-N Command Radio Set Transmitter)
12) Dynamotor Unit PE-73-CM (power supply for BC-375)
13) Radio Receiver BC-454-B (SCR-274-N Command Radio Set Receiver)
14) Radio Receiver BC-455-B (SCR-274-N Command Radio Set Receiver)
15) RF Unit Type 27 (Frequency module for R1355 GEE Receiver)
16) Inverter Unit PE-205-A (Power unit)
17) Modulator Unit BC-456-E (SCR-274-N Command Radio Set Modulator)

TTFN,
Paul

[RAMC181]

Harking back to the unidentified object fitted under the tail turret on page 1, this photo was posted elsewhere the other day:



And a closeup of the subject:



Both the 91BG B-17 earlier and "Mercy's Madhouse" were PFF ships, "Mercy's Madhouse" being one of the first batch to have the radar gear fitted while still in the USA. I wonder whether this fitting held flares of some other type of signalling system to indicate the bomb drop.

The mystery deepens........

TTFN,
PB

[Second Air Force]

I've looked at that photo many times but never noticed the little fitting on the tail.

Scott

[RAMC181]

100th Bomb Group's radar workshop at Thorpe Abbots:



Note the inverted H2X scanner radomes mounted on the roof.

[Second Air Force]

Now I'm mad--even the buildings have radomes!!!!! Neat photo, Paul, and it actually helps me to ascertain how tall the entire dome really was. Building mine gets a little bit easier with each photo you post.

Scott

[RAMC181]

Ta Scott,

I found another photo showing the 390th Bomb Group's radar shack at Framlingham, which also had radomes on the roof:



All the best,
PB