NON WARBIRD- Commuter Plane down in Buffalo NY Area 2/13/09

jet1 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:29 pm

marine air wrote:

Known facts;
1)It was below 10,000 ft so would have been going under 250 kts.
2)It was 7 miles from the airport, and the airspace requirements would have had it slowing down to 200kts max, unless directed otherwise by ATC or the STAR. They may have had reduced power settings.
3) THey were aware of the icing and responded to ATC.
4) It was gusty and pilot flying may or may not have been using the autpilot.
5) It only took out one house, as opposed to a row of houses.
6) the tail survived having been twisted off at impact.

THis is what is known based on the facts as reported by the press.

that plane has what I consider to be a really small wing area and it seems that it wouldn't take a lot to make it go critical IE icing....sad day for all those folks.

skybolt2003 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:33 pm

The NTSB just had a briefing and the reported good in from both data recorders. Pilots discussed significant ice buildup. The lowered the gear, then flaps 15, immediately followed by severe pitch and roll excursions. The tried to retract flaps and gear.
Wow.
Also amazing how fast the NTSB is trying to get this info out.
From what I've heard from Dash 8 pilots, it carries ice well and has good de-icers.
Bret

jtramo · **Joined:** Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:39 pm **Posts:** 359

Sounds like tailplane icing. With tailplane icing, it sometimes develops unnoticed until an application of flaps causes a change in pitch angle enough to initiate a stall. The difference with a tp stall is that you need to immediatly retract the flaps and pitch up to break the stall. You need to return the tail to a flyable pitch attitude as in a slight nose up. Problems here include the fact that this is opposite to a normal reaction and it takes several hundred/perhaps thousand feet to recover. They were around 2-3,000asl but only 1500 feet agl. Nearly impossible to recover even if caught immediatly. Again, this is speculation at this point but they said the violent pitch and roll changes came when they went to the first flap setting of 15. Ill say a prayer tonight for these folks.

Augsburgeagle · **Joined:** Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:17 am **Posts:** 112

Chilling reflection at the 22 minute mark of this excellent video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0735779946

Ztex · **Posted:** Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:16 pm

Augsburgeagle wrote:

Chilling reflection at the 22 minute mark of this excellent video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0735779946

Start that thought @ about 21:30...scary

Nathan · **Posted:** Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:10 pm

I was looking at the flight path of this airplane and it flew directly over my house. As we are on that flight path. I am sure I heard the airplane. I see lots of Dash 8's fly over all the time so I don't pay attention too much to them. But I was up around the time that plane flew over my area and I probably did hear the plane fly over. Kinda chilling when I think about it.

PinecastleAAF · **Joined:** Fri May 25, 2007 4:50 pm **Posts:** 1027

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Lynn Allen · **Posted:** Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:31 pm

Icing is tough to deal with. May they all rest in peace......

Lynn

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NON WARBIRD- Commuter Plane down in Buffalo NY Area 2/13/09

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