ATC Thread?

[mustangdriver]

I was just wondering if anyone would have an interest in an ATC Thread. Maybe you guys could give some suggestions about how the controllers could help you out.

[The Inspector]

Sure! it could prove (or disprove) insightful about the day to day of having the best view in the neighborhood and dealing with the intransigent transients you have to deal with-go for it Chris

[Scott Keller]

I'd be up for that. I have 27+ years in ATC and have tons of stories to tell, experience to offer and would love to hear from any pilots on how to provide them better service from an ATC standpoint.

Scott

[RyanShort1]

Do you have to listen to Chinese or other foreign students up there?

Ryan

[Scott Keller]

Do you have to listen to Chinese or other foreign students up there?

Ryan

No not too many Chinese but we do get quite a few Indian pilots/students out of Canada. Some can just barely speak English which really cranks up the enjoyment factor during a busy session. We also work Toronto Center which has a couple of controllers from Australia or New Zealand.

Scott

[Obergrafeter]

Which language is harder to learn.........Canadian or Australian?

[Bill Greenwood]

In my 30 years of flying, I have found that the briefers at Flight Service are pretty polite and nice perhaps 95% of the time. This was true when it was a govt service and maybe even more true now it is done by Lockheed as a contract. The briefer may be expert or not, correct or not, but most often it seems that they are really on your side and trying to help.

I have found many controllers who are also firendly and helpful, but I have also quite a few who are not. Why is that? Of course the flight service guys may have more time to talk, not having to deal with a moving plane, but still it seems different.

The type of airport and traffic seems to influence the ATC people also. When you get a lot of corporate jet traffic and a lot of training like at APA, Denver Centenial, they seem to be less friendly, perhaps it is just more hurried and stressful.

Another factor is most controllers are not pilots, may not see things from our side, and same for pilots, only a few of us are controllers, and we don't always know their side.

It used to be that the public was wlecome to visit the tower here and pilots got to know some of the FAA employees. No more they have walled themselves off like a forttress and they have their own parking lot, forbidden to all else, and we don't even relate to them except as a vioce on the radio.

It sometimes feels like ATC and pilots are on opposing sides. Of course, there are places like EAA Oskosh where it seems more together.

[Scott Keller]

It used to be that the public was wlecome to visit the tower here and pilots got to know some of the FAA employees. No more they have walled themselves off like a forttress and they have their own parking lot, forbidden to all else, and we don't even relate to them except as a vioce on the radio.

I work at Buffalo, NY and while our facility does have a fence around it pilots are always welcome to visit. We offer a pilot plug in program where the pilot gets a headset and can "plug in" with the controller and watch them work. You get to spend about an hour in the tower and an hour in the Tracon so you get to see how both work. These do have to be scheduled in advance though. The only things that could potentially cause a problem would be a sudden staffing shortage or it there is a change to the security threat level which would keep most visitors out of the facility.

Like Bill said, most controllers aren't pilots but being a pilot does not automatically make you a good controller. I got my start in general aviation and moved on to corporate flying before becoming a controller. The skills required for both are completely different. Pilots and controllers may share a common language and goal (getting the airplane from point A to point B as quickly and safely as possible) but that's where they start to part company. Don't get me wrong, being a pilot can certainly help in some cases. But if you're a controller, your job is to keep the airplanes separated.

If both sides can communicate effectively and exercise a little patience ( I know, tough to do if you're a pilot and you're staring at a level 6 weather return at 12 0'clock and 5 miles) I think it would help both parties in the long run.

And to the pilots out there, most of us controllers would love to give you all direct to the airport and make you number one when you get there but sometimes all those other airplanes are in your way. Or we can't get reach the guy in the next sector to coordinate your request for direct because he's tubed and can't take any special requests because of weather or traffic volume or they're training.

Training. Another reason for pilots to exercise a little patience. Unfortunately the only way to learn to be a controller is on the job training. It's not always the best way but it really is the only way. There is a ton of training going on in most facilities now and it will continue for the foreseeable future. Like 4 or 5 years. If you think it's tough as a pilot to sit there and watch someone else fly your plane and do it poorly because they're training then you know how I feel. Hope this helps.

Scott

[Enemy Ace]

One of the biggest mistakes of my life was not trying to be a controller. If i had to do it all over again I would have busted down doors to get into the program.... Now at 36 I'm way too old. I try and tell younger kids that ATC is a great deal but I don't think anybody listens. It seems that everyone grows up thinking that they are going to be F-22 pilots and 747 captains, and they pass by awesome opportunities like ATC.
I tried to talk my brother into at least applying, he was 25 and could still do it... he had a few hours of citation time and said No, he was gonna be a corporate jet guy. Now he's unemployed and too old for ATC. He also got married and wants to be home every night with the missus..... Not gonna happen if he starts flying again and he knows it.
I happen to think that people who go into programs like ATC are just a little smarter and realistic than most.

[mustangdriver]

As a new controller, I would love to know from some of the other long term controllers, what pieces of advice they would pass on?

[Scott Keller]

As a new controller, I would love to know from some of the other long term controllers, what pieces of advice they would pass on?

The first thing I would pass on would be to watch the veteran controllers and see how they work their traffic. No matter where you work, everyone else knows who the good ones are and who the bad ones are. Find a good one and watch what they do. Over time bad habits sometimes develop so be careful of picking up any of those. If you're a pilot that's great but I've seen people get in trouble when they start to think like they're flying the plane. You're there to separate the airplanes. It's ok to use the knowledge you have as a pilot to help you make a control decision, (for instance, whether or not the airplane has enough room to get down in time) but don't think, oh this is what I would do if I were flying the plane. That'll get you in trouble every time because you aren't the one flying the airplane.

Secondly, work hard. The only way to get better at anything is to work at it. I've done this for 27 years and every time I get off position I evaluate how I did. There is always room for improvement. Study the 7110. Know the phraseology and use it. Know the Letters of Agreement with all adjacent facilities. Not only will it help you move the traffic easier, but just in case something goes wrong and people come pointing fingers, you can say "Nope I was doing it by the book."

Thirdly, plan for the unexpected. If you're trying to squeak a departure out in front of an arrival on short final, know exactly what you are going to do if the arrival decides they need to go around. I tell all of the new people I've been training to plan three or four steps ahead. Make a plan and then execute it.

Lastly, control the situation. You're an air traffic controller not an air traffic observer. A lot of the new people will give the pilot a hint and then expect them to fill in the blanks. Tell them exactly what you want them to do and then make sure they do it.

It really is a great job. You get to watch airplanes all day. How bad can that be. Although occasionally I have been tempted to throw rocks at them as they go by if it's been an especially trying day. But never at warbirds of course.

Scott