Warbird Information Exchange :: View topic - Curtiss Condor restoration

I had a really nice phone conversation with Mr. Fred Austin. Very personable and knowledgable fellow. Here is the jist of what I got.

The Austins and Mr. Neumann (owner of the Condor project) have parted ways over differing ideas for the project. Part of the issue (apparently now solved) was a lack of drawings. I heard no animosity, just that they had different ideas.

Mr. Neumann and the Condor parts are in Moab, Utah. When Mr. Neumann salvaged the wreckage, it was cut into pieces that were manageable by people carrying them through the woods for some distance. The cutting wasn't hap hazard, but the remains are a lot of smaller parts.

Never say never, but the majority of the parts in posession of Mr. Neumann may only be good for patterns (my opinion - see pics.). Some knowledgable outside advice apparently pushed the approximate cost of restoration to $5 Million (mainly due to man hours). Like they say - It's doable, it just takes time and money! Mr. Neumann would be interested in talking with anyone interested in financing the restoration.

It would be really neat to have this "missing link" restored, but I don't know anybody with the money to invest in this...

These pictures are coutesy of Mr. Austin. I don't have his explicit permission to post them and hope that it is OK. There is a possibility that the B&W pictures were published a few years ago in Skyways Journal of Aviation #83 or #84. I post them here for educational value only.

C2j

Author:	Cubs2jets [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:20 am ]
Post subject:	Curtiss Condor restoration
Does anybody know the status of this project? http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3901/is_200607/ai_n17176614/ Reportedly owned by Dick Neumann and being worked on by Austin Sky Services. All it takes is money and man hours. C2j

Author:	ProfromDover [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
Have not heard of this. I'm in the Fort Worth area and quite interested as well. Google turns up zippo... FAA site comes up with: N12363 is Assigned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aircraft Description Serial Number 23 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name CURTISS-WRIGHT Certificate Issue Date 04/18/1972 Model T-32-C CONDOR II Status Undel Tri Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50061035 MFR Year None Fractional Owner NO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Registered Owner Name NEUMANN RICHARD D Street 18616 SATICOY ST City RESEDA State CALIFORNIA County LOS ANGELES Zip Code 91335 Country UNITED STATES According to Switchboard.com the only Richard D. Neumann in Reseda area is: Richard D Neumann 29489 Poppy Meadow St Canyon Country, CA 91387-4421 (661) 251-9475 Give him a call and see if he is the guy. It would be neat to know where the wreckage is located. Cheers,

Author:	RyanShort1 [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
There's a Condor wheel at Stinson at the Texas Air Museum. Ryan

Author:	Cubs2jets [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
PfD, Thank you for the "leg work". I did call the number and it has been disconnected. Through directory assistance I got a number for another Neumann in the area. Tried it and they said "wrong number". Anybody have any connection to the Austins? Former American Airlines Fred L. Austin III, Current AA Chris Austin or Brian Austin? C2j

Author:	astixjr [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
I spoke with the folks who were working on this project a few years ago. I was researching a Condor that was abandonded on the ice after an early South Pole expedition and managed to stumble onto the group you are talking about. They recovered the remains of a Condor off the side of a mountain in the New England I think. If I can find the contact info in my notes, I'll send you a PM. I'd enjoy hearing an update also. The Condor is another one of those "Ghost airplanes" that was built here in town. It sure would be nice to see one flying!

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Author:	ProfromDover [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
c2j, PM sent with some more phone numbers and such. Let us know what you come up with!

Author:	Cubs2jets [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
PFD, Thanks! I'll follow up and post what I find. By sheer coincidence, I found this on Barnstormers today: http://www.barnstormers.com/bizcard.php?username=fredaustin C2j

Author:	ProfromDover [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
Looks like you found the patriarch of the clan. Report back your soonest!

Author:	Cubs2jets [ Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
I had a really nice phone conversation with Mr. Fred Austin. Very personable and knowledgable fellow. Here is the jist of what I got. The Austins and Mr. Neumann (owner of the Condor project) have parted ways over differing ideas for the project. Part of the issue (apparently now solved) was a lack of drawings. I heard no animosity, just that they had different ideas. Mr. Neumann and the Condor parts are in Moab, Utah. When Mr. Neumann salvaged the wreckage, it was cut into pieces that were manageable by people carrying them through the woods for some distance. The cutting wasn't hap hazard, but the remains are a lot of smaller parts. Never say never, but the majority of the parts in posession of Mr. Neumann may only be good for patterns (my opinion - see pics.). Some knowledgable outside advice apparently pushed the approximate cost of restoration to $5 Million (mainly due to man hours). Like they say - It's doable, it just takes time and money! Mr. Neumann would be interested in talking with anyone interested in financing the restoration. It would be really neat to have this "missing link" restored, but I don't know anybody with the money to invest in this... These pictures are coutesy of Mr. Austin. I don't have his explicit permission to post them and hope that it is OK. There is a possibility that the B&W pictures were published a few years ago in Skyways Journal of Aviation #83 or #84. I post them here for educational value only. C2j Crash site of N12363 Wreckage of N12363 circa 1940. N12363 circa 2006. Portion of main cabin structure. Current condition of steele structure.

Author:	TheBoy [ Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
Cubs2jets wrote: I had a really nice phone conversation with Mr. Fred Austin. Very personable and knowledgable fellow. Here is the jist of what I got. The Austins and Mr. Neumann (owner of the Condor project) have parted ways over differing ideas for the project. Part of the issue (apparently now solved) was a lack of drawings. I heard no animosity, just that they had different ideas. Mr. Neumann and the Condor parts are in Moab, Utah. When Mr. Neumann salvaged the wreckage, it was cut into pieces that were manageable by people carrying them through the woods for some distance. The cutting wasn't hap hazard, but the remains are a lot of smaller parts. Never say never, but the majority of the parts in posession of Mr. Neumann may only be good for patterns (my opinion - see pics.). Some knowledgable outside advice apparently pushed the approximate cost of restoration to $5 Million (mainly due to man hours). Like they say - It's doable, it just takes time and money! Mr. Neumann would be interested in talking with anyone interested in financing the restoration. It would be really neat to have this "missing link" restored, but I don't know anybody with the money to invest in this... These pictures are coutesy of Mr. Austin. I don't have his explicit permission to post them and hope that it is OK. There is a possibility that the B&W pictures were published a few years ago in Skyways Journal of Aviation #83 or #84. I post them here for educational value only. C2j Nice work! Very interesting stuff. Right around the time we finished our Boeing (almost 2 years ago now) we were contacted regarding this airplane. I can't really say I recall what the purpose of the contact was, maybe just to show us a really cool project but anyway...I've been wondering about it ever since. Sure would be cool! It seems to me like someone who was willing to do the work on their own (like we did our Boeing) could cut that cost considerable, probably 10x - but that's just my thoughts. To pay someone to build it, now that's another story. Did I mention, THAT THING WOULD BE SO COOL!!!

Author:	Cubs2jets [ Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
Ryan, Is Aaron Hoffman still out there with you guys? C2j

Author:	astixjr [ Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
Those are the first color photos I've ever seen of the project. This looks like a great project for Glen Peck! http://www.peckaeroplanerestoration.com/ Intersting that I just noticed this piece on ebay Saturday evening. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWAX:IT It's listed as C-46 prints and there are a few there but there is also a CW drawing from 1937 for the Condor! They built a few C-46s in St. Louis but I think they built all of the Condors here. Sure would be cool to see a flying Condor!

Author:	TheBoy [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
Cubs2jets wrote: Ryan, Is Aaron Hoffman still out there with you guys? C2j Yeah, in fact right now he's my CFII. I see him probably 4 times a week.

Author:	Cubs2jets [ Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
Tell Aaron "The Boys From York" say "Hi!" C2j

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Author:	slinky [ Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Curtiss Condor restoration
astixjr wrote: I spoke with the folks who were working on this project a few years ago. I was researching a Condor that was abandonded on the ice after an early South Pole expedition and managed to stumble onto the group you are talking about. They recovered the remains of a Condor off the side of a mountain in the New England I think. If I can find the contact info in my notes, I'll send you a PM. I'd enjoy hearing an update also. The Condor is another one of those "Ghost airplanes" that was built here in town. It sure would be nice to see one flying! Albert, what ever happened to the abandoned Condor? Was it ever recovered? I remember it was part of an inovative expedition that had a lot of advanced transportation for the time....