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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:28 pm 
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A friend and I were wondering about the details behind the government using civilian aircraft during World War II. Anyone know if there was a list of those aircraft? How were they returned after the war? It seems that paperwork gaps exist on those aircraft in where they went and how they were used. A few examples come to mine. Several Waco Cabins, Spartan Executives and Lockheed 12s.

Just throwing this out there to see what info we can dig up!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:53 am 
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My dad had two J-3s impressed, never were returned and no compensation.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:39 am 
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Obergrafeter wrote:
My dad had two J-3s impressed, never were returned and no compensation.


I have heard this happened but always wondered what the feeling was after the war. Do you think he wanted something in return? How many were never returned?

Thanks for your note.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:49 am 
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Don't think he was to happy about it but it is one of those things that I wish I had discussed with him before he died. His dream was to start a flight school but with no planes and I guess everybody that wanted was goverment trained (the flying boom never materialized) he really wouldn't have stood much of a chance. Both him and his partner went on to succesfull business carrers so maybe it was a good thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:47 am 
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Any pictures or serial numbers on those planes so we could try and track them down?

Ryan

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:26 am 
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Here is your answer:

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/usafserials.html

This is a complete listing of AAC serial numbers and goes by year. You can view all the aircraft impressed into service. It will take a while to go through them all if you are looking for a specific manufacturer, i.e. Waco. Most were all impressed prior to 1943.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:36 pm 
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wacoykc wrote:
This is a complete listing of AAC serial numbers and goes by year. You can view all the aircraft impressed into service. It will take a while to go through them all if you are looking for a specific manufacturer, i.e. Waco. Most were all impressed prior to 1943.


OK... that would take a while to look thru. So I guess I will narrow down my questions to these... Was there paperwork that shows how/why the government pressed them into service? What DID they do during the time of service?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:41 pm 
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wacoykc wrote:
Here is your answer:

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/usafserials.html

This is a complete listing of AAC serial numbers and goes by year. You can view all the aircraft impressed into service. It will take a while to go through them all if you are looking for a specific manufacturer, i.e. Waco. Most were all impressed prior to 1943.


I guess my question could be interpreted that way :wink:.
I'd like to specifically find out what happened to Ober's father's planes.

Ryan

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:17 pm 
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Short of what you may/may not find if you ordered the paperwork from the FAA then my guess would be no...unless you could pinpoint what base the particular airplane operated from then you may get a little more information.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:17 pm 
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An email came to me in response to my note about the governement use of civilian aircraft durning WW2. GREAT infomation! So thank you to Mr. Savage as he gave me permission to post this info. His study was of his Spartan Executive but as he states... might reflect what happen to the other types as well. Dan


I'm somewhat familiar with what happened to the Spartans and I assume it is similar for other makes as well.  I have obtained copies of the data files from the FAA for a number of Spartans and the process seems to be the same for all of them. 
 
Most of the Spartans impressed were first purchased from the owners by the Defense Supplies Corporation.  Three were not, and I will explain their situation in the next paragraph.  The price paid appears to be fair value, with amounts ranging from around $18,000 to $23,000.  I say fair value since the cost new was in the $23,000 to $25,000 range and these were "used" airplanes at the time of purchase.  Soon after purchase, the Defense Supplies Corporation "sold" the airplanes to the War Department for the same price they paid for them.  At that moment, they disappear from the civilian records.  After the war, the airplanes that survived were transferred to Defense Plant Corporation and were converted back to a civilian configuration by Spartan Aircraft Corporation.  They were then offered back to the original owners, or if they were not interested, to other buyers.  They were generally sold back to the original owners as less than half of what the government had paid for them.  It is my understanding, none of these airplane left the USA and were generally used as transports for high ranking military officials and other "executive" type service.  For example, I understand one was used in FDR's Infantile Paralysis (polio) fund raising campaign.  Another (N17616) was used by Howard Hughes and other dignitaries in the War Bond campaign.
 
Three Spartans were "purchased/impressed" at the beginning of the war directly from the owners and went directly into the name of Polaris Flight Academy.  This was a British flight training academy located in California.  Fair value was paid for the airplanes and they were used as executive transports at that facility.  Polaris used the normal complement of PT's, BT's and AT's for the actual training.  While at Polaris, they retained their NC registration numbers.  The airplanes were transferred to the United Kingdom Government (for use by RAF) in early 1943, at which time they were relocated to Montreal.  S/N 9 became KD100, S/N 16 became KD101, and S/N 17 (my airplane) became KD102.  I have nothing to indicate how they were used by the Royal Air Force.  At the end of the war, the two surviving airplanes (S/N's 16 and 17) were transferred to War Assets Corporation (an entity in Montreal) and were subsequently sold back to civilian owners.
 
If my airplane is representative of the others that were impressed, they were flown a fair amount during the war.  At the time S/N 17 was acquired by Polaris Flight Academy, it had a total of 442 hours.  When returned to civilian use, it had a total time of 2350 hours.  That's about 1900 hours during a period of slightly less than 4 years. 


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