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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:02 am 
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Some thoughts from someone whose helped with some directories but been too scared to do them! (The Warbird Directory with Paul Coggan although the lion's share was done by Geoff Goodall and John Chapman.)

Interesting idea, something I'd like to see, but certainly a huge undertaking.

The only merit of such a list is to achieve a reasonable 90% coverage in some directions - bits and pieces aren't useful.

I'd be very disappointed if it turned into a US only list, either type or coverage. There's a big wide world out there, filled with interesting aircraft. ;)

Then again Mike Henneger shows what one determined individual can do with his Locator.

For every warbird out there, there's got to be 10 - 50 vintage types. Because they are mostly less rare, less costly* and of less interest to small boys, the coverage is a lot more sketchy than of warbird types. Likewise there are a lot of owners who aren't too keen on their aircraft getting written up, and the same problem that Les Hunt had and Paul Coggan's team certainly had, of owners not wanting dates locations etc published could be an issue.

However, current full type and owner details can be found on line for Australia on the CASA database and CAA database for the UK, whatever owners think, and I'd assume there are similar for other nations like Italy, Germany, Canada, France etc.

The Australian military type database www.adf-serials.com is an excellent resource, and a format that, IMHO, apart from the use of frames, works better than the Warbird Registry for searching by type etc. There may be issue over the data being able to be pulled, which is why the WR is the way it is. I'd be interested to see what other people thought of the ADF site's format.

One thing they do well is to have 'authors' for each type or 'page'. That system might be worth adopting. I wonder who'd be co-opted for Wacos and Lockheeds? :lol:

A smart move, IMHO, would be to start with a few rarer specific types, rather than heading in with the DH-60s and 82 and Piper Cubs. (And I've just realised this has been suggested several times already - Read the question stupid...) Then it would be possible to show these as evidence of achievement when trying bigger jobs.

Transport types have been well covered by the Survivors books by Roy Blewett. One of the things he's done is to list survivors against production, an interesting percentage statistic!

One other thing would be to adopt the Smithsonian system of ID, rather than the WR version. The Smithsonian (used in Bob Ogdens Museums of the world books, among others) is:
A: Active
C: Under rebuild
D: Derelict
PV: Public view - museum etc
RA: Research accessible - not public view
S: Stored
X: Carries false markings

They can be used in combination, as well. Thus you can have PVAX which tells you a lot about the aircraft in four letters.

Rather than aiming for full or even partial histories by ID, just starting whith a what's where now would be useful, IMHO.

What do people think?

*Relatively...

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 Post subject: vintage
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:08 pm 
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JDK wrote:
Some thoughts from someone whose helped with some directories but been too scared to do them! (The Warbird Directory with Paul Coggan although the lion's share was done by Geoff Goodall and John Chapman.)

Interesting idea, something I'd like to see, but certainly a huge undertaking.

I'd be very disappointed if it turned into a US only list, either type or coverage. There's a big wide world out there, filled with interesting aircraft. ;)

One thing they do well is to have 'authors' for each type or 'page'. That system might be worth adopting. I wonder who'd be co-opted for Wacos and Lockheeds? :lol:

One other thing would be to adopt the Smithsonian system of ID, rather than the WR version. The Smithsonian (used in Bob Ogdens Museums of the world books, among others) is:
A: Active
C: Under rebuild
D: Derelict
PV: Public view - museum etc
RA: Research accessible - not public view
S: Stored
X: Carries false markings

They can be used in combination, as well. Thus you can have PVAX which tells you a lot about the aircraft in four letters.

Rather than aiming for full or even partial histories by ID, just starting whith a what's where now would be useful, IMHO.

What do people think?



Thanks for the comments! I respect your opinion and enjoy reading your thoughts. You (and many others) have offered info and pics to my own SMALL web site and I greatly appreciate it!

Yes... huge undertaking but starting with lower production numbers and working our way up appears to be the way we are leaning. I like that plan! 8)

I too would be disappointed if it was only US types. There are some types I think would be VERY INTERESTING to see where the survivors are! Hopefully we will have a worldwide participation. :wink:

Page authors and contributors SHOULD be noted. In this internet age I think credit is hardly given where it is due!

I am with you James on the Smithsonian ID systems. Looks like a good one.

Also... my thoughts exactly on starting with basic details and partial histories to start. This will help too if the owners want to chime in and have some of the more personal details deleted. (Example... owned by "Old Time. LLC" of Dallas, Texas doesnt say who the owner is and where the aircraft is based.)

So... As Fall turns to Winter here in the US some of us will have more time at the computer and not out working in the hangar! I am making notes for the entries I will contribute!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:39 pm 
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Another potential problem, and one which could result from the listings being simply a regurtitation of the USCAR (in particular) data, is that many of these aircraft on the US register do not sill exist as such, and are 'paperwork only' nowadays. However, these aircraft may well re-emerge in the future. Other countries' aviation authorities, such as the CAA in the UK, are much more rigorous about canceling registrations when the aircraft concerned are destroyed, exported, disappear from sight or are withdrawn from use.

I can think of one antique aeroplane that I photographed air-to-air this summer which started life a few years ago when the present owner purchased a dataplate and a throttle box from a collector!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:47 pm 
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Thanks, Dan, and good points, Mike. Some kind of pictorial or sighting evidence of a listed aircraft would be good.

As to the whole replica built around a throttle box, I'm not going there. Let's just take people's word for it if they've built one that it's a real aircraft!

Cheers

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:46 pm 
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So who is actually going to download any list that we provide? I do not have the computer knowledge to do so. And is the intent to provide a photo and background for every airplane in the Manufacturer list?

Why don't we all agree on say 10 manufacturers. Divide them up (although some of you already have lists of your favorites) and give them to whoever the key person(s) are and have them download. Then we can send the key users photos, history, updates, etc. Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:13 pm 
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Good question. It's critical that any work done can populate an online database without any tedious converting. I'd be happy to offer to liaise with Scott, BUT I'm already overcommitted; it would not happen. Happy to assist as far as possible with a couple of type databases, perhaps.

Dan, d'you think you could get the ball rolling perhaps?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:06 pm 
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JDK wrote:
Dan, d'you think you could get the ball rolling perhaps?


I know Scott is a busy man so I am giving him some time to respond to my notes about the HTML code for the pages. So I started that process. In my research I have copied the databases off of the web site - aircraftone.com - then worked with a few of the "type club" newsletter editors to make my lists from. When I get some of those lists started I can either post them on my web site for all to review or maybe post them on Google Docs so we can edit them.

I will step up as a coordinator!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:19 pm 
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WAY TO GO Dan!!!!! I'll help all I can.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Good man, Dan.

I'll do my best to help.

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 Post subject: update
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:13 pm 
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Update - got a note from Scott saying he would send me a template soon. Also noted that in one of his posts Scott mentioned a VintageWiki so that the list can be editable. I am not that familiar with how that could be developed so... I assume we will go ahead with the "regular" version.

For my first project I am going to build a spreadsheet version of my own lists that include all the data fields that will be transfered to registry. Going to keep it simple. Shoot me an email if you want to work off the same format spreadsheet.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:52 am 
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Wow,

I step away from the vintage side of WIX for a while and this thread I started seems to have really gone somewhere. I apologize for being absent until now.

I think one thing I can contribute, or at least get in touch with people that can contribute would be with regards to the Fleet Canuck. There weren't that many built, not many remaining, and already a very significant club/community of owners here in Canada. There are already good lists of the survivors too.

Besides the Fleet Canuck I could also track down info on all vintage aircraft still registered in Canada. The Transport Canada Aircraft Registry Online Database is easy to use and is always up to date.

So, when shall we start and how can I help?

Cheers,

David


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 Post subject: Vintage
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:59 am 
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OK... finally pulled up the files that Scott sent to me for submitting vintage aircraft for the registry. What we need is the following...

Type
Serial No.
Civilian Registration
Model
Status
Last Info
History

So copy and paste the info above into a text file (Word, Word Pad, Notepad etc.) and name the file by type-N# (spartan-17662) I will then copy and paste into the .html code to submit to Scott.

If you are submitting a photo please attached it and credit the source.

If any of you are up on .html I can send you the info Scott sent me.

Check out these layouts so you know what they will look like...

http://vintage.warbirdregistry.org/waco ... 12428.html

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/f8fregis ... 90446.html

Let the fun begin!

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