Mystery Ship NR1313 cockpit photos...

[Wing Nut]

IMHO, that plane never should have left the US...

[JDK]

IMHO, that plane never should have left the US...

Free market economics! There are methods to secure historic aircraft, but they need to be supported / invoked. It's a whole 'nother discussion.

I'd be interested in a response to me earlier question on the validity of the claim about the Italian Mystery Ship, or if we're just repeating an old canard.


Regards,

[Mike]

.........l.l.l.l or if we're just repeating an old canard.

Or in this case an old anatra.

Didn't you know that nearly everything was copied from the Americans James? The Zero, of course, was an almost direct copy of the Hughes Racer, as is well known.

[The Inspector]

He who provides the biggest pile of intaglio portraits of dead Presidents or former exhaulted leaders takes home the cake...............

[Baldeagle]

.........l.l.l.l or if we're just repeating an old canard.

Or in this case an old anatra.

Didn't you know that nearly everything was copied from the Americans James? The Zero, of course, was an almost direct copy of the Hughes Racer, as is well known.

Also, I think the Spitfire was copied from the Keith Rider R-6





-

[JDK]

Didn't you know that nearly everything was copied from the Americans James? The Zero, of course, was an almost direct copy of the Hughes Racer, as is well known.

You really have gone native, Mike. I thought everything was copied from the Brits.

I also mentioned the year Zero claim earlier, so there... :rathernicechardonnay:

Just to be clear, I don't much care who is claiming precedent, just looking for evidence. Recently I've had three eastern European claims to various forms of engineering lessons to later, more successful other nations' originators, and I'm just very over the "invented here and we woz robbed" bullsh!t version of history.

So... No actual evidence, then? As they say in that programme, "Busted" - again...

Regards,

[Wing Nut]

As for the validity of the Mystery Ship going to Italy, who knows? We know it was built for the Italian Government by Travel Air and that it was shipped to Italy. After that, it's anyone's guess. After finding out about R614K being restored, I give up stating anything as fact about this plane. Who knows if Doolittle's plane isn't undergoing restoration somewhere right now. I forget which plane they based it on, but Edward H. Phillips says it was scrapped in Italy and the fighters were sold to China.

If you have concrete proof of something otherwise, please share it...

And as for it leaving America, if it were just any plane, that would be a different story. You can have as many Stearmans (men?), Cessna 195's, Monocoupe, or whatever. This particular plane is a piece of the fabric of American history as much as Lindbergh's plane or the Wright Flyer. Pancho Barnes is part of Americana. It was at Pancho's that all the test pilots would meet. It was at Pancho's that Yeager broke two ribs the night before he broke the sound barrier. It has a storied racing career, it's been in countless movies (albeit, only sound) and it never should have been allowed off of US soil.

If I were going to restore it, the only thing I might do different is to restore it's original inline Chevolair configuration. A beautiful plane...

[cwmc]

Bob Van Ausdell was killed in the Staggerwing Museum's Mystery Ship in 1995, it was built up by Mike Stanko at Gemco and flown from their itty, bitty runway there. It was a cluster that Bob was flying it, and from that runway, all totally preventable.
Chris...

[Mike]

You really have gone native, Mike. I thought everything was copied from the Brits.

No, just the Bell X-1

[APG85]

Neat thread on a beautiful aircraft. Would love to see one someday...

[JohnB]

Is there any reliable evidence for the claim it was 'the basis for their fighter design'? I've seen it repeated elsewhere, and I'm always sceptical of such technology transfer statements - and yes, sometimes I'm wrong. (The most famous examples would be the Tu-4 from B-29, true, and the Hughes Racer to Zero - false.) However the Italians had a strong dedication to remarkable innovative design; certainly I'd expect their Mystery Ship to be thoroughly examined for good ideas; how much it it was the main driver for fighter design I'd be interested in seeing evidence for.
Regards,

JDK

I finally saw a copy of the Phillips book on the Mystery Ships. A friend has it in his hangar library.
In it, he discusses the Italian fighter that evolved from some of the techniology/lessons of the Type R.
It was not a copy, rather it just had some of the features of the Travel Air.

I don't think it was procured in any numbers, rather more of an evaluation aircraft.
I didn't make write down the exact Italian type, But I can get it.

[Mark Sampson]

For the OP's benefit, the film edge label '5054 TMZ' in those contact proofs refers to Kodak's 'TMax P3200' film, introduced c.1989 and only recently discontinued. So those photos can't be much older than 1990 or so.