Waldo Pepper J-1 Standards Question

[Jerry O'Neill]

I'm just wondering if anyone out there has specific information regard N-Numbers or serial numbers on the two Standard J-1's that were used during the filming of "The Great Waldo Pepper" and which was painted as Waldo's aircraft?

I know that Kermit Weeks owns one of the aircraft but I'm not sure about the other one. I also understand that both may have been built up for film work in the 1950's by Frank Tallman.

Any help would be appreciated.
Blue skies,
Jerry

[marine air]

My primary flight instructor, Col. Haun, had solo'd in 1929 in a Waco 10 and later flew a Standard J-1 in the 1930's in the Memphis area. I remember him saying they had the 90 hp. Hisso not the 150 hp or whatever, in the J-1 like in that movie. So maybe you can narrow your search to those that have the higher horsepower version.
He said the scene where they jumped a hedge would have been impossible with the small engine as it could barely climb at all and couldn't build up any momentum either.

[barnbstormer]

There was no 90 hp Hisso. I assume you mean the 100hp (sometimes eferred to as 90hp) four cyl, inline Hall-Scott A-7a aero engine. The J-1 Standard was produced in large numbers with both the Hisso and the Hall- Scott. Large numbers of the Hall-Scott Standards were used in U.S. WWI military flight training units. I used to have a Texas photo (panoramic)showing a line-up of about 40 of them.

[astixjr]

Jerry,
The J-1 Standard in our museum was one of the a/c used in the movie "The Great Waldo Pepper". My father and John Cournoyer purchased it a few years ago from Ray Folsom. When it showed up at our place here in St. Louis, it was still painted up for it's last film gig. I think it was used for a Japanese beer commercial, Kirin Beer maybe? In any event, it was all red with a Japenese character on the side. my father flew it for a while but it was really time for the fabric to come off. The fellow that does my father's restorations, Glen Peck, pulled the fabric off of it last week. I'll drop by his shop this week and take some photos. I think the engine is a 200 HP Hisso so it's got a bit more than the original J-1s. The good news is that it will be restored with the same scheme it wore in the Great Waldo Pepper and I think that would make Ray Folsom happy.

This plane has been in more movies, TV shows, and commercials than any other plane in our museum. Some people told us that Ray never flew it unless a camera was rolling. I'm sure that's probably not 100% accurate but among it's film credits are The Great Waldo Pepper, Ace Eli, The Rocketier, and Titanic.

[Jerry O'Neill]

That's awesome Al!
Thanks for the info!
Do you know the serial/N-number and if it was actually painted as Waldo's aircraft?
I don't think they painted both Standards in Waldo's scheme during the filming, though both were painted in the Dillhoffer scheme for those sequences.
My interest is that Tallman used them and I think had two built up for the "Spirit of Saint Louis" film in he 1950's and Tallman used his for many films also. (Wings of Eagles, Mad, Mad World, Lucky Lady, Ace Eli etc.)
Most of the time they don't list the N-number or show it on camera.

When they pulled the fabric off did they try sanding it down to determine what some of it's past paint schemes were? That could tell if it were Waldo's aircraft if big black letters show up on the fuselage sides.
Jerry

[Don Parsons]

I'm working in Glenn's hangar restoring my Cub as he does the Standard. The airplane has a Hisso "E" mounted on the front. He took the fabric off the wings and tail surfaces today. Two days ago the fabric came off the fuselage. We looked and couldn't see any "Waldo" markings but he thinks they were probably painted in water soluable paint and taken off after the filming.

The wings are newer construction and require just sanding and a quick coat of varnish before covering. The tail and fuselage look original. The tail won't take much but the fuselage is probably going to be taken apart for a thorough cleaning of all the pieces.

The engine will also be overhauled for as far as we can tell, it hasn't had any maintenance in 35 years.

I have pix but no way to post.

Oh, and the Cub is coming along nicely too.

Don Parsons

flyingantiqueairplanes.blogspot.com

[astixjr]

Don Parsons was kind enough to email some images he took this week at Glenn Peck's shop. I'm not sure about the s/n but I'll have a look and see what I can find out. I think Ray Folsom took this Standard to the Waldo Pepper movie set right after he finished the restoration. I'm guessing that would have been in the early 1970s? I'm not sure exactly how this one was painted in the movie but Ray, Glenn, or maybe my father will know. It had many layers of movie paint residue on it but Glen usually saves the fabric to see what kinds of markings he can uncover. It's interesting to note the size difference between the Cannuck/Jenny and the Standard J-1. The Standard looks much larger than the JN4 when you see them side by side.

You can check out some of Glenn's work at his website link below. He is a true craftsman. We are lucky to have him at Creve Coeur Airport. I rarely fly an airplane unless Glenn has restored it or at the very least, done the last annual.

http://www.peckaeroplanerestoration.com/

[marine air]

Well I was just trying to remember from a conversation from 25 years ago. I know there were two Hissos on the J-1 and the lesser powered could barely climb. He told a story abuot the J-1 that they had near Memphis.
He said that it had been repaired and was way out of rig and they couldn't get it to fly very well. An "ace" pilot came along with handle bar moustache, riding boots and pants and said he had been fighting the gurerillas in some banana war in Nicaragua. He even had maps of Nicaragua in his riding boots. He said he knew how to fix the J-1 where it would really "do something."
So he cut the wing tips off at the struts, he put the front struts on the back and the back struts on the front, and he adjusted all the flying wires and cables.
He was in a hurry to get back to the "war" and didn't have time to test fly it. Well everyone else was afraid to fly it also, and Colonel Haun, then about 19 or 20 decided he was supremely qualified to be the test pilot. After all, he had rebuilt and flown his OXX-5 powered WACO 10 for a total of ten hours.
He got it propped off and took off in a blaze of dust on the takeoff run. He couldn't get it airborne, and he forgot that there was about a 4 foot dip in the pasture. Airborne momentarily, it dropped the left wing and made contact with the ground and then ground looped in a big somersault.
Embarassed, Jim got out with only a scratch on his forehead and took off running. A little while later the ambulance truck,the sheriff and a bunch of people arrived to pull the body from the wreckage. A beautiful brunette nurse seemed disturbed at the sight of the wreckage and the thought of the lost pilot trapped inside of the now burning wreckage. Jim consoled her and assured her the cut on his face came at great risk while trying to pull the pilot from the wreckage.
He never told her he was the pilot and she later became his first wife!

[astixjr]

I think that Robertson Aircraft here in St. Louis purchased a bunch of J-1s after WWI, some still in crates. They removed the Hall Scott four banger inline engine and stuck OX-5s and Hissos on them. From what I understand, they turned them into "clip wings" and made a small fortune selling them.

[Baldeagle]

If I remember the story right Tallman had two Standards for Ace Eli, and wrecked one of them. Waldo Pepper required two, and Ray Folsom and Ernie Freeman each had projects, they used the wings from one project and the rest from the other to put one together for Waldo, the one now at Creve Coeur. One or more of the Standards was put together in the '50s by Otto Timm. One of them was also in "Mad Mad Mad Mad World", wish I knew which one.




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[Fleet16b]

Just slightly off the Jenny topic.
In a few of the scenes they used Tigermoths mocked up to look like JN 4's.
The scene where Axel crashes in the pond is actually a T-Moth.
We have that very a/c up here in our collection now. It's restored back to original and flies well.

[Jerry O'Neill]

Just slightly off the Jenny topic.
In a few of the scenes they used Tigermoths mocked up to look like JN 4's.
The scene where Axel crashes in the pond is actually a T-Moth.
We have that very a/c up here in our collection now. It's restored back to original and flies well.

That's great!
Where did they acquire the Tiger Moth from? I know Tallman had one that went to Kermit's. It was painted yellow and the engine cowl was pretty banged up.
It wasn't the first time he used a moth as a "Jenny stand-in".
The film "Villa Rides", with Robert Mitchum, has a Tiger Moth with a faked up radiator and extra struts on the wings.
Jerry

[Baldeagle]

Kermit's Stampe was also used in Waldo, in some of the shots of the actors in flight you can see a Stampe tail behind them, it has brace wires that the Moth doesn't. When I worked for him he also had the burned out fuselage that was used for the Stiles Skystreak crash (I think it had been something good like an American Eagle), and the special axle from the wheel-less Jenny, with small castors on it so that it could land on a paved runway after "losing" its wheels on take-off.
The carnival crash is also a Tiger Moth, I think Kermit ended up with several Tiger Moth wrecks from Tallmantz.

Also, the Stinson L-1 and Curtiss Wright Junior at Fantasy of Flight were camera planes for Waldo Pepper.

Jim Appleby told me once that the fat lady that was one of Waldo's potential passengers in one barnstorming scene actually wanted to go up, but nobody wanted to take her, so they made excuses until it got dark. Jim had one line in the movie, "I knew she wasn't worth top billing..." if you don't remember that part you haven't seen it enough--

Incidentally the Sopwith Camel went to Kermit and is now with Tony Bianchi in England, it was in a pretty good beer commercial a few years back with a Fokker Eindecker. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYcF-sxRTAY

The Fokker Triplane went to FL also and Kermit flew it a bit, but apparently it wasn't the best workmanship, and I think it ended up hanging in a shopping center overseas somewhere.


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[Fleet16b]

When I worked for him he also had the burned out fuselage that was used for the Stiles Skystreak crash (I think it had been something good like an American Eagle-

The a/c that "flew " as the Stiles Sky Streak was I think a DH Chipmunk that was modified for the movie. Cnaopy removed , inverted system , fake bracing post and wires. Painted a flat dirty white.
It's too bad they used an American Eagle for the fire scene. What a waste of a good a/c

[Baldeagle]

It was one of Art Scholl's Super Chipmunks with a 200 Ranger, and it's Art's face in the shots from the cockpit, distorted by the Gs.
The Jungmeister was Frank Price's, who said he'd never do another movie again, didn't like the way they treated his airplane.