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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 9:52 pm 
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Any update on the B-17 #: 41-2446 Swamp Ghost
Forced landing, Agaiambo Swamp, Papua, New Guinea.

The Registry said that David Tallichet acquired the salvage rights in 1999.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 10:03 pm 
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Quote:
The Registry said that David Tallichet acquired the salvage rights in 1999.


Wow! How'd he get the permission? Apparently Papua New Guinea has been closed to outside recovery work.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 10:05 pm 
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Go to Pacific Wrecks Database, find the Swamp Ghost site. Alfred Hagen bought out Tallichet's interests. Read info, very interesting.


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 Post subject: Swamp Ghost
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 6:47 am 
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Thanks Col. I hope it gets recovered by someone soon.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:44 pm 
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the red tape in getting her out is higher & more sharp than the kunai grass surrounding her. rob has the right theory, but justin taylan can put all the speculation to rest. regards, tom

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:47 pm 
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Indeed.

the political process turns ever so slow. Meanwhile, the old girl will continue her slide into oblivion. I hope someone can get her out before it is too late.

Paul


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:55 pm 
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I don't think Mr. Taylan wants Swamp Ghost to be recovered. He has a petition on his site to the PNG government to prevent recovery from happening.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:04 pm 
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Hi,

That info is terribly unfortunate. What is the point of placing petitions and "hands off" signs on aircraft such as this and the TBD Devastator that was the subject of a lengthy lawsuit some time back. All they are going to do is deteriorate to a point where no one will know what it was or what it did. History is best preserved by things that were there. Memories by men fade with time, and that info should be written and handed down. But the things...the planes, tanks, ships, etc...are a testimonial to ALL Americans during that time. They should be preserved...not written off to a dump or in the case of Swamp Ghost.....tall grass and the elemnets of nature.

There...I'll get off my soapbox now,

Paul


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:35 pm 
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Here's the link.
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/swampghost/news.html
see petition link--Kinda funny, a lot of people didn't read the petition. If you read the signatures, you will not that many people want Swamp Ghost recovered and restored. Even if PNG won't let it come to the US, I'd rather see it in the PNG National Museum than in a swamp.


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:37 pm 
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Some people:

I won't say any names, but we all know who they are They want the planes left to rot, because they wear rose colored glasses, and think rusting junk is a romantic notion. Gad, it sounds like an idea right out of the Enquirer or a Louis L'amour novel.

Kind of flamboyant, eh. It wasn't me, I dont read those. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 10:47 pm 
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A certain someone mentioned in another post that he thought all that needed for an airplane to exist was just the outer shell. Well, there's a B-29 in a lake in AK, but I haven't heard that it's worth recovering.

I mean c'mon, what's the good of an aircraft that can't be restored to at least near flying condition? I'm sorry, but I can't consider an aircraft that is missing so many parts to be worth much.

However, I'd still like to see both of them recovered.


Last edited by Wolverine on Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Swamp Ghost
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:13 pm 
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Location: Air World Australia
Lots of people claim they own the B-17.
The PNG Museum decides who owns what and where it's going,and it's still there.
I realy don't think it's going anywhere just yet.
No export pewrmit maybee.


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 2:25 pm 
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Yep,

Some folks have their rose colored lenses too close to their brains I would imagine. Unfortunate, because if it weren't for industrious people who take the time to put the effort into recovering these items and putting them back into at least a static presentation, let alone the expense to actually fly them, would we, or the public at large even understand what was behind all of it ? Winston Churchill, I believe, said it best. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it". And by having things such as flyable aircraft, no matter what type it may be, or tanks, or ships, or guns of any sort, around for people to know what it took to fight one of the great conflicts in world history, then the memories of WHY we fought in those conflicts fade and the reasons that we may yet fight again will come back to haunt us.

It is too bad we seem to have so many "revisionist historians" in the world. Because they are the ones who for "Political Correct" reasons will be the cause of yet more fighting and more suffering. And with the advent of so much new technology since the worlds last great conflict....the losses will be even more devastating.

As to the B-29 in the Alaskan lake.... It would be great to see it retrieved and at least cleaned up, but the cost may prove too high.

I'll get back off the box now...sorry if I rambled abit

Paul


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 12:33 pm 
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Rob,

That's still for PNG to decide don't you think?

Cheers

Cees


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 Post subject: Swamp Ghost Update
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 6:40 am 
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OK, to answer the original question "Any update on the B-17 #: 41-2446 Swamp Ghost"
I'd like to say a few things. I keep track of this forum for a number of reasons, its informative, it provides me with hours of laughter and I can sometimes set a few records straight. I while ago I came out and made a prediction about the sale of a P-38 to a US buyer, this P-38 at that time was going from Australia to the USA. I won't go into some of the comments made but shall simply say some were very negative however, it seems I have been proven right and a gaggle of this type are now destined for a workshop in Australia. So I have a good source, in fact I'll say I have an excellent source of information about warbird recoveries and movements. So I will stick my neck out again and lets see what sort of response I can get.

UNESCO has no over-riding power or retrospective powers relating to agreements, treaties or contracts entered into by any nation other than those who have or who intend to subscribe to it. So, unless one of these little Pacific Island nations agrees to recognize UNESCO it has no meaning. A brush up on International Law and International treaties will demonstrate that to be fact. Besides, the US Govt will, in the next 3 to 5 years have its hands full of environmental damages claims from a lot of these places as shipwrecks commence to break down into smaller bits, releasing large amounts of oil, glug and all sorts of other nasties into the traditional fishy waters of these nations. Just ask any environmental lawyer or search the web for this subject and you'll see what's brewing.

The Swamp Ghost "has recently" been the subject of interest of an Australian based recovery group (east coast I believe) to the extent that on site inspections have taken place, and have included engineering assessments, logistical reports, ownership negotiations at the local and national level's and has seen the commencement of a contractual agreement, being in principal, as to where any restoration may take place.

Now I know this sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo and people will jump right back and say, "show me the pics" or "what a load of #%*#" blah blah blah......but look at it this way. If I am right, then there is a lot of 'personal' history out there in warbird land connected to this aircraft and perhaps this alleged group of recovery experts just couldn't be bothered getting into a war of words, perhaps they simply want to just get on and do it. I can understand why there maybe some reluctance to talk about it.

So, the update is, Yes there is an active plan to recover this amazing time capsule and have it restored and put on display.

Now I shall go and get my helmet and take some cover............

Shelldrake


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