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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Warbird Digest
Final Cut-The Post War B-17 Flying Fortress and Survivors - 5th Edition


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:34 pm 
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The WWII C-53 "Skytrooper" was produced only in Douglas Aircraft's Santa Monica, California plant.
Was the factory applied underside gray or grey (I am using both spellings so that the thread shows up for both in Google) applied in a straight or wavy line?
On the nose of the C-47, a nearly straight line of underside gray or grey paint is noted for aircraft produced at Douglas Long Beach (DL), California.
On the nose of the C-47, a very wavy line of underside gray or grey paint is noted for aircraft produced at Douglas Oklahoma City (DK), Oklahoma.

Did the C-53, being produced at a different factory, have a straight or wavy underside line on the bottom of the cockpit when it was originally delivered from the factory?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:42 pm 
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I'd say wavy demarcation...

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C2j


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:17 pm 
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Oh nice!!!!
Keep the pics coming! That is exactly what I am looking for!

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Van
Kosovo, Afghanistan (x2) and Iraq Campaign Veteran
B-29 42-24791 "Big Time Operator"
C-47A 43-15137 "7H" Normandy/Holland Vet
SNJ-5B S/N 84947
UC-45F 43-35764 Cockpit
PT-26A 42-71104
LNE-1 S/N 31556
CG-15A Cockpit
CG-4A Cockpit (x2) and fuselage
Follow QuestMasters on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/QuestMastersMuseum
Museum collection homepage: http://www.questmasters.us


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:16 pm 
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These folks are restoring a C-53, you might try asking them....
https://www.vintagewingsinc.com

A quick search on Google images (many of which direct you to Pintrest) brings up a piece of artwork and decal set...both have wavy lines.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:50 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:36 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:12 pm 
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I you look on the "about our airplane page" of vintage wings inc, you see a straight line:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Nice color shot.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:51 am 
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Hi John,

The few pix I've seen show wavy, but there are two other demarcation issues to be aware of:

- Following a visit to one of the Douglas plants, Hap Arnold sent a memo that they had been incorrectly applying the camouflage. He was referring to the countershading beneath the stabilizers, where the Neutral Gray swept up the fuselage side to meet the tail planes. On later C-47s and C-53s, the demarcation runs along the bottom of the fuselage with a band of Dark OD between the Neutral Gray and the stabilizers.

- Douglas was one of the companies confused by the original orders adding a Medium Green pattern to the leading and trailing edges of all flying surfaces. Since the orders weren't specific, Douglas added the Medium Green to lower surfaces as well as upper surfaces. A June 1943 revision of the TO limited the disruptive pattern to upper surfaces and vertical tail sides only, but by that time hundreds of aircraft had been delivered with the strange disruptive pattern.

One final thought, the OD and Neutral Gray applied to tail planes, outer wing panels, and cowlings rarely matched the paint seen on the fuselage and inner wing panels - even on newly delivered aircraft. The subassemblies were painted by the subcontractors, who generally found different paint sources. As the paint faded, the differences in the paints became even more exaggerated.

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Dana


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:02 am 
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Dana M Bell wrote:
Hi John,

The few pix I've seen show wavy, but there are two other demarcation issues to be aware of:

- Following a visit to one of the Douglas plants, Hap Arnold sent a memo that they had been incorrectly applying the camouflage. He was referring to the countershading beneath the stabilizers, where the Neutral Gray swept up the fuselage side to meet the tail planes. On later C-47s and C-53s, the demarcation runs along the bottom of the fuselage with a band of Dark OD between the Neutral Gray and the stabilizers.

- Douglas was one of the companies confused by the original orders adding a Medium Green pattern to the leading and trailing edges of all flying surfaces. Since the orders weren't specific, Douglas added the Medium Green to lower surfaces as well as upper surfaces. A June 1943 revision of the TO limited the disruptive pattern to upper surfaces and vertical tail sides only, but by that time hundreds of aircraft had been delivered with the strange disruptive pattern.

One final thought, the OD and Neutral Gray applied to tail planes, outer wing panels, and cowlings rarely matched the paint seen on the fuselage and inner wing panels - even on newly delivered aircraft. The subassemblies were painted by the subcontractors, who generally found different paint sources. As the paint faded, the differences in the paints became even more exaggerated.

Cheers,


Dana


Pretty interesting stuff!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:24 pm 
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StangStung wrote:
I you look on the "about our airplane page" of vintage wings inc, you see a straight line:

Image


StangStang,

OK. I've looked closely at this picture and I see NOTHING that tells me this is a C-53. Please educate me on the finer points of C-53 / C-47 differentiation.

C2j


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:08 pm 
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Cubs2jets wrote:
StangStung wrote:
I you look on the "about our airplane page" of vintage wings inc, you see a straight line:

Image


StangStang,

OK. I've looked closely at this picture and I see NOTHING that tells me this is a C-53. Please educate me on the finer points of C-53 / C-47 differentiation.

C2j


I'm not an expert on either by any means. I simply started reading this thread. Then, on the fourth post, a fellow Wixer helpfully posted a link to folks who claim (I take them at their word, perhaps I shouldn't) that they are restoring a C-53. Then I posted a pic from their website.

But since you asked, I went back to that website (the one that's posted right here, in the fourth post on this thread) and what do you know! They have a link on that very question. Once again, I take them at their word.

https://www.vintagewingsinc.com/what-is-a-c-53


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Think CJ2's question is how they know the color photo is of their aircraft.
The nose are matches the artwork on their site, so it looks like they got lucky and found a color wartime photo of their aircraft

As far telling a 47 from a 53, all I can do is look at the door
...which is far from foolproof since impressed airliners would also have the passenger door...and make sure it doesn't have blowers like a C-47B.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:13 pm 
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.I'm not an expert (though I sometimes play one on the internet). I may well be wrong. I "challenged" StangStung in an effort to gain more knowledge.

I accept that Vintage Wings owns a C-53 based in Beach City, OH. I believe they have used a bit of artistic license to apply the nose art Beach City Baby on their C-53 (their aircraft, their choice).

I do not believe the aircraft in the color picture is a C-53. No astrodome. Civillian DC-3 type carb air intakes (Unlike any C-53 pictures, but certainly inconclusive). Straight paint demarcation line (again inconclusive, but not consistant with other C-53 pics).

I honestly can't read the first word in the nose art. Is it really Beach?

An interesting exercise in detective work. I'll leave it up to someone else to query Vintage Wings...

C2j


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:45 am 
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I didn't connect the nose art name to their location. I just assumed if they went to the trouble of doing a piece of art, AND showed a color photo in the history section of their website it really was their plane. :) :) :?

If it's not and they're just going to paint their C-53 like an unrelated C-47 because of its name...as you said it's their airplane.

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