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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:38 pm 
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TriangleP wrote:
aerovin wrote:
Just as a note, Mantz used a USAF ex-drone, 44-83592, for the crash and it remained with the USAF...it was subsequently scrapped. Mantz did have his own B-17F at the time...one of his Stillwater airplanes, but it was not used in the film. I know that Bruce Orriss is trying to put together that elusive list of airplanes used in the film but it has proved just that. Those airplanes came from an Eglin-based guided missile group and also, reportedly, at Brookley Air Depot. Since there were all modified to resemble B-17Fs and were painted and marked specifically for the film, there is no way to tie things up. Bruce figured out the history of his airplane (44-83887) years ago...it was used in both the 1949 and 1960s TV show of the same name, but the existence of the fuselage was not generally known or identified (it came from the bar in Greeley). And, yes, it does have its own section in Final Cut. It never was a civil airplane.

I think the only active drone controller at the time that still exists is 44-85738...the Tulare airplane, but I have my doubts that it was used in the film. I think they were pretty much drones that were used, but that's just conjecture. How much effort was made to install turrets and remove post-war equipment, only to put the airplanes back into drone configuration at a time when there were still hundreds of new B-17s in storage awaiting use. My guess is all the airplanes were "reclaimed" after the filming was completed.


Hi Scott, I'm wondering if Bruce has a typo on his website, as he shows his bird as being 44-83387, easy to make an 8 into a 3.
http://tafhs.net/Piccadilly%20Lily/B-17G.htm
Forgive me if this has been discussed before...
Now to send you that check... :oops:


Nope...that's my error. The correct serial is 44-83387...so many numbers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:48 am 
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my best friends dad when I was a kid was a top gunner/flight engineer in B-17's .He was in the 306th bomb group flying from Thurleigh? in England.the story of 12 o'clock high is supposed to be based on the 306th bomb group.anyone agree? he was there from 42 to 45 .how many people survived that long flying in the 8th?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:26 am 
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agent86 wrote:
my best friends dad when I was a kid was a top gunner/flight engineer in B-17's .He was in the 306th bomb group flying from Thurleigh? in England.the story of 12 o'clock high is supposed to be based on the 306th bomb group.anyone agree? he was there from 42 to 45 .how many people survived that long flying in the 8th?


Twelve O'Clock High was based on several 8th AF incidents from different bomb groups, not just the 306th BG.

The character of Lt. Jesse Bishop was based on co-pilot John C. Morgan of the Robert Campbell crew, 92nd BG, who earned the Medal of Honor in July, 1943 on a mission to Hanover, Germany.

General Frank Savage was based on General Frank Armstrong.

The 918th BG was the authors multiplying 306(BG) X 3= 918.

Not very many survived flying 3+ years in the 8th AF. Are you sure your friend's dad flew missions all the time he was there? That would have been a lot of missions. :shock:

There is more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_O%27Clock_High

but I don't consider wikipedia the most credible source of information ... :roll:

The 12 O'Clock High Logbook is an excellent resource about the movie for us 12 O'Clock High nerds. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:09 am 
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He told me he was there from 42 to 45. even I found this hard to believe but if you knew Ray ,you would know he wasnt one to brag nor tell B.S.he was in the AF for 17 yrs,got fed up and walked away from his pension and bennies.He's the guy I posted about who punched out a general , spent a month in jail and was set free because the general was booted on a section 8

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:54 am 
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Pogmusic wrote:
Most of the filming was done at Duke Field -- Eglin AFB. The briefing room, at least until the 1990s, was still there.


I believe you are referring to Spectre Hall and yes it's still there, in fact my retirement ceremony was conducted in it in 2008. It's a historical building on Duke Field and a lot of people work to keep it going.

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Last edited by ffuries on Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:08 pm 
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Its been a couple years since I looked but I have checked the 306th website.not alot of info came back to me.i have a stack of 306th assoc monthly papers.His name was Sermon Ray Bunch,known as Ray(daddy wanted him to be a preacher) If anyone can find info on him I would be very appreciative.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:41 pm 
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TriangleP wrote:
agent86, I did a google search for Sermon Ray Bunch and had a hit on a "306th BG Echoes" newsletter for January 2009 - Vol. 34, No. 1. Sadly, an obituary notice on page 2 for Sermon Bunch of Henderson, Nevada.
http://www.306bg.org/PDFs/jan2009Mweb.pdf
I assume it is him, as he has an unusual name. He was 1628th Ordnance Company supply sergeant, which probably explains his longevity in the Group. These guys often served a long time. I wish we had more maintenance guys at our reunions, as these guys knew all the stories about the Group. I'm sure Ray did as well.

The 306th BG will have their reunion on Oct 27-30, 2011 in San Diego, CA. Thats pretty close by and well worth the effort, I am sure! You gotta go!
http://www.306bg.org/

Thats him ,Thank you for the info.much appreciated.i have a picture of maybe his squadron?and him all in front of and sitting on the wings of a B-17.his wife,asked me to look at the pic and tell her which guy was Ray.He was easy to spot.squatting down with a cigarette in his hand.I'll dig the pic outa storage one day.he did that pose with the cig till the day he died

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:45 pm 
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he also flew in Super Dumbo Air/Sea rescue B-29's out of Scotland post war

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:47 am 
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I don't think I've seen the movie in 20-30 years, but I've been recording the TV series on ME TV. Pretty cool show! How many years was it on? Did it come after the movie?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:58 am 
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Django wrote:
I don't think I've seen the movie in 20-30 years, but I've been recording the TV series on ME TV. Pretty cool show! How many years was it on? Did it come after the movie?


You might look here: http://www.aerovintage.com/tvtwelve.htm

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:13 pm 
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Strangely enough, last night I fished out the Sept 1999 issue of Avation History and started again reading the back story on how the book and the movie came about. and some key scenes came about. the article is by Chuck Dunning. The sacking of the base commander actually happened after Eaker had the 'wave through' @ the base gate @ Thurleigh. The base commander was Col. Charles B. "Chip" Overacker who coupled an ability to find fault with just about everything Eaker and staff came up with,coupled to the worst combat record in the 8th for aborted missions, highest losses and lowest accuracy.
After a tour of the base with Overacker, Eaker had a closed door meeting with Overacker and two other officers, one, Col Frank Alton Armstrong was made commander of the 306th on the spot. The other officer in the room was a Lt. Col. Bernie Lay.
In 1942 Lays cowriter, Maj. Sydney 'Sy' Bartlett was a chief aide to Maj. Gen. Spaatz. in Nov of 42 the General and Bartlett along with Eaker and Eakers aide, Maj. James Parton were doing a semi ceremonial tour of U.S. bases with King George VI, things went fine until they hit Thurleigh where there were no MP's to greet them and the group was passed by a pair of G.I.'s with their jackets unbuttoned and both smoking and they completely ignored the royal entourage.
There was a Picadilly Lily, a B-17F of the 351st B.S., 100th B.G. and Lay flew in it on a costly mission to Regensberg on Aug. 17, 1943

The movie was done in 1949 and the TV series was a mid to late 60's a 'QUINN MARTIN PRODUCTION' and was on I believe three years and starred Robert Lansing and Paul Burke.

For the movie they actually used the front of a chopped up B-17 to add realism to the scenes looking over the running #2 engine on the sound stage, @ Greg Pecory

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Last edited by The Inspector on Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:22 pm 
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aerovin wrote:
Django wrote:
I don't think I've seen the movie in 20-30 years, but I've been recording the TV series on ME TV. Pretty cool show! How many years was it on? Did it come after the movie?


You might look here: http://www.aerovintage.com/tvtwelve.htm


Thanks Scott! That explained alot! I have about 20 episodes on the DVR much to my wife's dismay!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:29 pm 
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Django,
You aren't even to half way yet! the series aired from 9/64 to 1/67 with 64 B&W episodes and 17 in color for a total of 78 (don't tell your wife!! :roll: )

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:17 pm 
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Haha, I know! I think I've seen about 10 so far, and more keep recording. I have caught her deleting them before I can watch them, but she usually (begrudingly) lets me keep about 15 of them at a time. Of course I have little to no time for TV! :lol: :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:54 pm 
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So, go to Mr. Bezos' little on line store (AMAZON) and buy the DVD's for about $20 and the movie for another $25-easy deal! That way it leaves her plenty of room to record Ellen or whatever.

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