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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:34 am 
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Most of the filming was done at Duke Field -- Eglin AFB. The briefing room, at least until the 1990s, was still there.

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:44 am 
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aerovin wrote:
Just as a note, Mantz used a USAF ex-drone, 44-83592, for the crash and it remained with the USAF...it was subsequently scrapped. Mantz did have his own B-17F at the time...one of his Stillwater airplanes, but it was not used in the film. I know that Bruce Orriss is trying to put together that elusive list of airplanes used in the film but it has proved just that. Those airplanes came from an Eglin-based guided missile group and also, reportedly, at Brookley Air Depot. Since there were all modified to resemble B-17Fs and were painted and marked specifically for the film, there is no way to tie things up. Bruce figured out the history of his airplane (44-83887) years ago...it was used in both the 1949 and 1960s TV show of the same name, but the existence of the fuselage was not generally known or identified (it came from the bar in Greeley). And, yes, it does have its own section in Final Cut. It never was a civil airplane.

I think the only active drone controller at the time that still exists is 44-85738...the Tulare airplane, but I have my doubts that it was used in the film. I think they were pretty much drones that were used, but that's just conjecture. How much effort was made to install turrets and remove post-war equipment, only to put the airplanes back into drone configuration at a time when there were still hundreds of new B-17s in storage awaiting use. My guess is all the airplanes were "reclaimed" after the filming was completed.


Hi Scott, I'm wondering if Bruce has a typo on his website, as he shows his bird as being 44-83387, easy to make an 8 into a 3.
http://tafhs.net/Piccadilly%20Lily/B-17G.htm
Forgive me if this has been discussed before...
Now to send you that check... :oops:

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:38 pm 
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TriangleP wrote:
aerovin wrote:
Just as a note, Mantz used a USAF ex-drone, 44-83592, for the crash and it remained with the USAF...it was subsequently scrapped. Mantz did have his own B-17F at the time...one of his Stillwater airplanes, but it was not used in the film. I know that Bruce Orriss is trying to put together that elusive list of airplanes used in the film but it has proved just that. Those airplanes came from an Eglin-based guided missile group and also, reportedly, at Brookley Air Depot. Since there were all modified to resemble B-17Fs and were painted and marked specifically for the film, there is no way to tie things up. Bruce figured out the history of his airplane (44-83887) years ago...it was used in both the 1949 and 1960s TV show of the same name, but the existence of the fuselage was not generally known or identified (it came from the bar in Greeley). And, yes, it does have its own section in Final Cut. It never was a civil airplane.

I think the only active drone controller at the time that still exists is 44-85738...the Tulare airplane, but I have my doubts that it was used in the film. I think they were pretty much drones that were used, but that's just conjecture. How much effort was made to install turrets and remove post-war equipment, only to put the airplanes back into drone configuration at a time when there were still hundreds of new B-17s in storage awaiting use. My guess is all the airplanes were "reclaimed" after the filming was completed.


Hi Scott, I'm wondering if Bruce has a typo on his website, as he shows his bird as being 44-83387, easy to make an 8 into a 3.
http://tafhs.net/Piccadilly%20Lily/B-17G.htm
Forgive me if this has been discussed before...
Now to send you that check... :oops:


Nope...that's my error. The correct serial is 44-83387...so many numbers.

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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Your dedication and hard work researching this area speaks volumes, an error doesn't diminish it a wit. This nit-picky stuff keeps a person busy doesn't it? :lol:
Now for that check...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:48 am 
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my best friends dad when I was a kid was a top gunner/flight engineer in B-17's .He was in the 306th bomb group flying from Thurleigh? in England.the story of 12 o'clock high is supposed to be based on the 306th bomb group.anyone agree? he was there from 42 to 45 .how many people survived that long flying in the 8th?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:26 am 
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agent86 wrote:
my best friends dad when I was a kid was a top gunner/flight engineer in B-17's .He was in the 306th bomb group flying from Thurleigh? in England.the story of 12 o'clock high is supposed to be based on the 306th bomb group.anyone agree? he was there from 42 to 45 .how many people survived that long flying in the 8th?


Twelve O'Clock High was based on several 8th AF incidents from different bomb groups, not just the 306th BG.

The character of Lt. Jesse Bishop was based on co-pilot John C. Morgan of the Robert Campbell crew, 92nd BG, who earned the Medal of Honor in July, 1943 on a mission to Hanover, Germany.

General Frank Savage was based on General Frank Armstrong.

The 918th BG was the authors multiplying 306(BG) X 3= 918.

Not very many survived flying 3+ years in the 8th AF. Are you sure your friend's dad flew missions all the time he was there? That would have been a lot of missions. :shock:

There is more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_O%27Clock_High

but I don't consider wikipedia the most credible source of information ... :roll:

The 12 O'Clock High Logbook is an excellent resource about the movie for us 12 O'Clock High nerds. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:09 am 
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He told me he was there from 42 to 45. even I found this hard to believe but if you knew Ray ,you would know he wasnt one to brag nor tell B.S.he was in the AF for 17 yrs,got fed up and walked away from his pension and bennies.He's the guy I posted about who punched out a general , spent a month in jail and was set free because the general was booted on a section 8

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:32 am 
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If he was there for nearly the whole time, the 306th BG Association would most likely know about it, either in their own group history or the personal lore of the members. Their website
http://www.306bg.org/ They don't have a combat crew roster online tho. Its a lot of work putting one together. The 384th BG has one through a lot of hard work.

There were guys that signed up for multiple tours, but not many. A lot were in a leadership position, but an enlisted guy that made master sargeant would be useful to a group commander especially in training the new crews into the Group. In the 384th BG, Intelligence Officer Maj. "Pop" Dolan was with the Group when they were assigned to Grafton Underwood in July 1943 until the end of the war, but didn't fly combat missions, tho its understood he hitched a ride on a few.

The idea of the story line of the movie made up of a composite of events in the 8th AF makes sense. There are events in the story that also parallel what happened in the 384th BG when Budd Peaslee was replaced by Dale Smith in late 1943. Dale Smith recounts this transition and his tenure in the Group in his book "Screaming Eagle". It was a very rough time for all these Groups, and similar things probably happened throughout each of the bomb groups.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:54 am 
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Pogmusic wrote:
Most of the filming was done at Duke Field -- Eglin AFB. The briefing room, at least until the 1990s, was still there.


I believe you are referring to Spectre Hall and yes it's still there, in fact my retirement ceremony was conducted in it in 2008. It's a historical building on Duke Field and a lot of people work to keep it going.

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Last edited by ffuries on Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:08 pm 
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Its been a couple years since I looked but I have checked the 306th website.not alot of info came back to me.i have a stack of 306th assoc monthly papers.His name was Sermon Ray Bunch,known as Ray(daddy wanted him to be a preacher) If anyone can find info on him I would be very appreciative.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:22 pm 
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agent86, I did a google search for Sermon Ray Bunch and had a hit on a "306th BG Echoes" newsletter for January 2009 - Vol. 34, No. 1. Sadly, an obituary notice on page 2 for Sermon Bunch of Henderson, Nevada.
http://www.306bg.org/PDFs/jan2009Mweb.pdf
I assume it is him, as he has an unusual name. He was 1628th Ordnance Company supply sergeant, which probably explains his longevity in the Group. These guys often served a long time. I wish we had more maintenance guys at our reunions, as these guys knew all the stories about the Group. I'm sure Ray did as well.

The 306th BG will have their reunion on Oct 27-30, 2011 in San Diego, CA. Thats pretty close by and well worth the effort, I am sure! You gotta go!
http://www.306bg.org/

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:41 pm 
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TriangleP wrote:
agent86, I did a google search for Sermon Ray Bunch and had a hit on a "306th BG Echoes" newsletter for January 2009 - Vol. 34, No. 1. Sadly, an obituary notice on page 2 for Sermon Bunch of Henderson, Nevada.
http://www.306bg.org/PDFs/jan2009Mweb.pdf
I assume it is him, as he has an unusual name. He was 1628th Ordnance Company supply sergeant, which probably explains his longevity in the Group. These guys often served a long time. I wish we had more maintenance guys at our reunions, as these guys knew all the stories about the Group. I'm sure Ray did as well.

The 306th BG will have their reunion on Oct 27-30, 2011 in San Diego, CA. Thats pretty close by and well worth the effort, I am sure! You gotta go!
http://www.306bg.org/

Thats him ,Thank you for the info.much appreciated.i have a picture of maybe his squadron?and him all in front of and sitting on the wings of a B-17.his wife,asked me to look at the pic and tell her which guy was Ray.He was easy to spot.squatting down with a cigarette in his hand.I'll dig the pic outa storage one day.he did that pose with the cig till the day he died

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:45 pm 
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he also flew in Super Dumbo Air/Sea rescue B-29's out of Scotland post war

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:47 am 
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I don't think I've seen the movie in 20-30 years, but I've been recording the TV series on ME TV. Pretty cool show! How many years was it on? Did it come after the movie?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:58 am 
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Django wrote:
I don't think I've seen the movie in 20-30 years, but I've been recording the TV series on ME TV. Pretty cool show! How many years was it on? Did it come after the movie?


You might look here: http://www.aerovintage.com/tvtwelve.htm

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