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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:38 am 
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Dragging this thread back from the dead I'm afraid, but it seemed the right place to ask......

Does anyone have any information on this type of radio room gun mount, where the gun is mounted through the centre of the hatch window?

Image

Image

Image

Thanks in advance,
PB

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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:28 am 
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I'd say that was a field modification, Paul. I can't say I've ever noticed that setup before.

Scott


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:03 am 
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So far I've spotted the same modification on four B-17s, all 8AF 1st Air Div but different Groups and Wings.

Block numbers for them are:
B-17G-1-VE
B-17G-10-DL
B-17G-20-BO
B-17G-40-BO

I'm going to have a look to see if I can spot the mod on any 3AD Forts, otherwise it may be something they came up with at the 2nd Strategic Air Depot at Little Staughton/Abbot's Ripton.

Will report back with any news.

All the best,
PB

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:11 am 
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Steve Nelson wrote:
Here's a pic of the radio room gun on B-17E 41-9023 "My Gal Sal." As you can see, the gun is in the stowed position.

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My G*D what a beautiful interior restoration.., where is this bird? WOW!!!!

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:26 am 
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Ken wrote:


So, were the positions the same on the E thru G models until the gun was deleted? Ken


Yes, at first. It was not until way into the production of the G model that the Radio hatch gun was removed. The Early G model had the flexible gun mounted on a Ring mount or tubular mount (as used on the B-17E and B-17F). Then in the later G models, the gun mount was part of the radio hatch. It was after these production blocks that the radio room gun was deleted. There are literally hundreds of photos showing these early G models coming off the production line with the the radio hatch gun in place (early 1944).

Ken, You need to visit a library. There are dozens of books that deal with this issue and provide photos.

Good Luck with your research.

TonyM.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:49 pm 
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the330thbg wrote:
Steve Nelson wrote:
Here's a pic of the radio room gun on B-17E 41-9023 "My Gal Sal." As you can see, the gun is in the stowed position.

Image




My G*D what a beautiful interior restoration.., where is this bird? WOW!!!!


That is B-17E "My Gal Sal" at the Blue Ash Airport in Ohio, not far from Dayton. It is a static restoration, and will be all assembled in a new building that will serve as a history center for the area. Super nice people, as I met them a few times. They have helped out the Memphis Belle restoration out a good bit by showing just what needs to be achieved, adn how things are set up.

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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:14 pm 
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Was the deletion of the radio operator's gun on late G models related to the introduction of the Cheyenne tail turrent?

Were radio operators ever able to shoot down anything with these guns?


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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:05 pm 
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The EAA has a picture of an interesting installation on this page:
http://www.airventuremuseum.org/virtual/interactive/b17_tour/B17web.swf
(Click on Gallery, then look in the middle of the page)

I'm thinking it has to be a factory or overseas mod depot, as there are some spare wings in the background and no markings apparent.

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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 6:46 pm 
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Dave Lindauer wrote:
Was the deletion of the radio operator's gun on late G models related to the introduction of the Cheyenne tail turrent?


No, the Cheyenne tail was introduced a long time beforehand.

Jarink1 wrote:
The EAA has a picture of an interesting installation on this page:
http://www.airventuremuseum.org/virtual/interactive/b17_tour/B17web.swf
(Click on Gallery, then look in the middle of the page)

I'm thinking it has to be a factory or overseas mod depot, as there are some spare wings in the background and no markings apparent.


That's the final type of radio room gun mount, prior to it being deleted from production.
Interesting to note the air deflector for the open hatch versions is still fitted (and deployed) in that photo.

All the best,
PB

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:57 pm 
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mustangdriver wrote:
the330thbg wrote:
Steve Nelson wrote:
Here's a pic of the radio room gun on B-17E 41-9023 "My Gal Sal." As you can see, the gun is in the stowed position.

Image




My G*D what a beautiful interior restoration.., where is this bird? WOW!!!!


That is B-17E "My Gal Sal" at the Blue Ash Airport in Ohio, not far from Dayton. It is a static restoration, and will be all assembled in a new building that will serve as a history center for the area. Super nice people, as I met them a few times. They have helped out the Memphis Belle restoration out a good bit by showing just what needs to be achieved, adn how things are set up.


If this photo was black and white I would have guessed it was a Boeing factory photo...


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:30 am 
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Here's a montage of photos I took on the same visit, back in 2005. A freind arranged a tour for my wife and I. Owner Bob Ready spent an hour showing us around..and was very nice. They're doing a great job. As mentioned, it's a static restoration, meaning many aspects of the rebuild were not done to airworthy standards (much of the skin is attached with pop rivets, with the heads filled in) but you'd never know just by looking. The advantage of a static restoration is that the interior fittings can be absolutely authentic..no compromises for modern radios, electronics, etc. This is in no way meant to bash fliers..I love 'em all!

SN

Image

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 8:18 am 
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I found another example of this gun mount modification, this time on B-17G-20-BO 42-31485 IY-X Old Ironsides of the 401BG:

Image

Every aircraft I've seen so far with this modification also has the Radio Operator's window modified to take a Chaff chute.
I'll keep digging through the files and report back if anything else turns up.

All the best,
PB

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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 8:30 pm 
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Some more:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Note the same flaking paint on most of the outer wing sections.

All the best,
PB

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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 9:54 pm 
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Sentimental Journey has the gun like My Gal Sal. The plexi radio hatch must be removed and the gun mount slides down on tracks putting the gun in a position to fire overhead.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:34 am 
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TonyM wrote:
Ken, You need to visit a library. There are dozens of books that deal with this issue and provide photos.


Tony, I would love that, and will do so when I have time. In the mean time, I'm glad there were people here eager to share such knowledge and photos, particularly of surviving warbirds; part of the original question way back when.


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