Seat types in AT-6/SNJ/Harvard family

[MacHarvard]

Gentlemen: I am pretty confident in my historical knowledge of this family, but I have no such confidence 'technical'-wise. Can anyone tell me how many different seat types there are in this series? I'm assuming two, one in the Harvards (assembly part number 49-53074-10) and one in the American birds. I am also thinking that there might be a third version in the T-6G, although I might be confusing seat type with the mechanism that allowed the instructor to alter his seat position up and down.

Help, anyone? Please and thank you.

Doug

[snj-5]

US built birds used either the Warren McArthur or Schick Johnson
seat (both are listed in the illustrated parts books). I've seen another
seat design in several Mark IV Harvards (probably the part number
you refer to).

Bela P. Havasreti

[MacHarvard]

Thank a million, Bela! The only parts book I have access to is my copy of the RCAF Harvard Mk 2/2B/4, so I had nothing to compare the number to.

cheers
Doug

[BLR]

Hi Doug,

I'm gonna highjack your thread with a question.

You would happen to have any historic info on Harvard RCAF370 that's currently at the Penhold Base? My only knowledge of Harvards is that alot of them were yellow!

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian....

[MacHarvard]

Hi Brian. Hijack away! Right at hand, I only have the military history. The later material is laying all over about 500 square feet of floor, while I try to restore sanity to a state of chaos, created by nine years of storage. I will gladly provide more as it rises from the murk.

Harvard Mk 4 20370 was taken on strength, the RCAF, August 19, 1952 and was struck off charge October 10, 1965. In between, it served at CJATC Rivers and #4 FTS and was, theoretically at least, sold off through the CADC. I would bet that Mr. Tournay would be able to tell us more about how she came to be a gate guardian. Steve?

Doug

Have a peek here for a service time photo
http://www.airmuseum.ca/rcaf/rivers01.html

[BLR]

Thanks Doug,

About the only info I have is that the plane is that it operated from Manitoba and Penhold and appears to have had an accident. I did hear that 370 was possibly the last official RCAF flight in a Harvard, the story being that she was re-activated to do a farewell flyby at Penhold. After that was surplused and sold to the City of Red Deer who wanted it as a gate guard at the airport. I do know that the engine was swapped with Norseman CF-BSC. That's pretty much the extent of my info on 370.

The reason for the info is that a group at Penhold (Red Deer Airport) restoring the Harvard and they're going to mount it on a pole. They're looking for any service photos particularily with #4FTS, history of the Harvard and possibly anyone that logged time in her to put together a history. Also of particular interest is the paint scheme she wore while at Penhold.

Any insight to the history of this Harvard would be much appreciated.

I did manage to get the below photo of the Harvard when it was with CJATC Rivers.

BTW, I hope you get things organized soon, I've been trying to do the same for about 9 years now and there's still no end in sight !

All the best,

Brian....

[bdk]

Any info on RCAF 20302 CCF4-93 besides what is in the Harvard! book? Photos????

[MacHarvard]

I'll put her on the 'watch for' list as I sort and file. There are a lot of photos here that were never scanned and catalogued. That's all I can promise for now.

Doug

[TEXANTOMCAT]

I always get confused which is which- but AFAIK

The Warren MacArthur is the two pan metal type with tube bracing

The Schtick Johnson is the single metal 'slab sided' type seat from sheet metal (photos of seats we have follow)



There was a wooden type also which was the same design as the SJ - in fact this one is a curiosity as it is marked as being manufactured by Hughes Aircraft - anyone know more?



Further, we have two seats which are of the SJ type but which have curved backs - I believe they were used by the Portugese AF



Hope that helps - we dont have a WM seat so I cant post a pic!

TT

[snj-5]

I believe the two seats in the first picture are CCF-manufactured
Harvard seats (not Schick Johnsons).

I'll post a piture of a Warren McArthur seat later today (unless
someone beats me to it) but here's a Shick Johnson seat:



Bela P. Havasreti

[TEXANTOMCAT]

Bela always knows more than me

they are Harvard seats but i imagine they are virtually identical to US T-6 Manufactured ones- certainly the attachments and fittings appear to be the same?

As for the wooden one - that is a mystery but its not a CCF seat - as I said made by Hughes in the good ol US of A!

Would appreciate any gen on it BTW

TT

[bdk]

...here's a Shick Johnson seat:

Made of magnoosium by the way.

[snj-5]

Bela always knows more than me

they are Harvard seats but i imagine they are virtually identical to US T-6 Manufactured ones- certainly the attachments and fittings appear to be the same?

As for the wooden one - that is a mystery but its not a CCF seat - as I said made by Hughes in the good ol US of A!

Would appreciate any gen on it BTW

TT

Not always! I just have the "luxury" of having a T-6 project as a pet
for the last 11 years or so... Even a gomer like me can learn *something*
over the time-span of 11 years....

Brandon is correct in stating the Schick Johnson seat is made from
magnesium sheet (wierd material...). I believe the (similar in
appearance) Harvard seats are made out of aluminum sheet.
Bit of trivia; The SJ seat weighs 8 lbs, and if I recall correctly,
a WM seat weighs about 12 lbs.

The attachments and fittings are similar as you state. There are
just a few overall dimensional (and other) differences between
the two seats (note how the seat sides on the Harvard examples go
all the way to the top of the seat, where the Schick Johnson sides have
cut-outs part of the way down from the top). The seat buckets are also
slightly different in shape, as are the roll-formed edges of the seat
sides.

FWIW, I've seen the round-back, similar to SJ type seats in several
different fighters like the Corsair & P-38.

The T-6 also utilized a wooden seat for a short period of time, but I don't
know who the supplier/manufacturer was.

Bela P. Havasreti

[MacHarvard]

I don't have a photo of the woodie, but this will give a good indication of what it looked like.

Doug

[Mike Robinson]

Says Bendix on these seats

Last edited by Mike Robinson on Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.