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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:21 am 
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Well said and done Scott... Thanks for keeping WIX up..... :wink:

Lynn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:39 pm 
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Since things have calmed down some since the bannings. I will re-open the off topic section. Lets keep it civil and under control this time!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:04 pm 
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I agree with you Scott, things have really calmed down and I'm not afraid to open any threads.

I can breath much easier now, so I have to say that your bannings have really done the trick. Of course we lost some interesting perspectives, but to be honest, it looks as though with the banned people gone, many new and old people are coming out of the woodwork to contribute.

I like the way things are going.

Thanks again Scott, this place is awesome!

Cheers,

David


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:17 pm 
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You never know. After the bannings, I decided to break the links to the over 800 photos I have posted in past threads, post no further photos, and generally scale down the time and thought I put into my posts. So the consequences can be complex, with some coming out and others withdrawing.

August

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:10 pm 
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You never know. After the bannings, I decided to break the links to the over 800 photos I have posted in past threads, post no further photos, and generally scale down the time and thought I put into my posts. So the consequences can be complex, with some coming out and others withdrawing.


Looks like we think alike, I closed all post I could too.

Dave


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:09 pm 
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It sounds like "closing posts" is more effort than doing nothing. I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind that! is that a form of punishement to the WIX comminuity, or what? I hate to see value being lost from the WIX.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:46 pm 
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Thanks to photobucket's album management tools, it takes just a few minutes to bulk-move files to new folders, breaking external links. They could be restored just as quickly. I can't speak for Dave, but for myself, there was no notion of protest or punishment. I wasn't even going to mention it. I just personally felt less inclined to contribute to wix so I dialed back my contributions. I'm still here, just less so. Although I guess if someone were to resurface in a forum more tolerant of opinionated left-leaning Spitfire owners who won't shut up about politics, but otherwise was about as good as this one, I'd probably follow him over.

August

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:34 pm 
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k5083 wrote:
...Although I guess if someone were to resurface in a forum more tolerant of opinionated left-leaning Spitfire owners who won't shut up about politics, but otherwise was about as good as this one, I'd probably follow him over.

Bill's politics weren't at issue. It was his belief that no-one else's opinion was worth anything that was the problem, and repeated looking for fights.

I don't care what someone's politics are. Good manners of accepting others points of view and agreeing to back off when asked is, I think, a reasonable requirement for a forum - one that Bill wouldn't accept.

I was, frankly amazed that Bill decided to adopt G.W. Bush's 'if you aren't with me you are against me' when I'd volunteered to act as a Mod - after that, he felt it was open season; hardly a 'liberal' attitude in the book definition.

IMHO, he got a lot more space than other posters would have been tolerated with.

I don't like talking about posters who can't post their point-of-view, but having worked very hard to keep WIX a habitable environment for all, that's a bit tough. Many other's had been railroaded by Bill and just given up. How far should we have let that go?

Yes, I'm angry and frustrated because we keep getting sucked into this pointless argument, rather than discussing aviation.

August and Dave, you have PMs. I'd rather be constructive - we all need to make WIX work - or not.

Yours,

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:31 am 
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Sigh,

and I thought things were going in a fairly good direction. I respect and kind of understand the silent protests that are occuring, but wish "everyone could just get along".... haha...

I really enjoyed Bill's inclusion in the warbird discussion. He brought a wealth of first hand knowledge that most of us could only dream of. It saddened me to see him go because I think he was kind of corned for his political views... but what got him booted was that he'd, as James said... would look for fights.

It kind of urked me to see him add little teasers tempted people into responding to a non-warbird related topic.

So, there you go. I wish Bill was still on board here, but understand that he caused himself to be removed.

-David


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:27 am 
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k5083 wrote:
Thanks to photobucket's album management tools, it takes just a few minutes to bulk-move files to new folders, breaking external links. They could be restored just as quickly. I can't speak for Dave, but for myself, there was no notion of protest or punishment. I wasn't even going to mention it. I just personally felt less inclined to contribute to wix so I dialed back my contributions. I'm still here, just less so. Although I guess if someone were to resurface in a forum more tolerant of opinionated left-leaning Spitfire owners who won't shut up about politics, but otherwise was about as good as this one, I'd probably follow him over.

August


August,

I have enjoyed and appreciated your posts on legal issues and interpretations, as much as I have enjoyed Bill's posts in the Hangar and in Off-Topic on "left-leaning spitfire issues".

However like all communities theres a need to establish rules and respect authority and I do think Bill was constantly stepping over the line in recent times (perhaps in post election euphoria and expection of a pendulum swing) but it was also in the face of repeated warnings, that left the Management in no place but to ban him, and this is after earlier suspensions.

I also understand from JDK's post elsewhere that there were significant efforts in PM to resolve Bills complaints and behaviour?

In this case I do fully support Scotts decision to ban Bill, despite my enjoyment of his posts, however the community is not a "democracy", and therefore management decisions and actions may not always neccessarily reflect the shared views/values and opinions of the posters here and please everyone.

But thats how it is, and providing this forum, funding it, policing and moderatoring it for all our use and enjoyment are rather thankless tasks.

I think the tone of the first post in this thread "Thats It" demonstrates the frustration those management roles can provide.


I understand many enjoyed Bills' opinions and debates as did I, but I do also strongly support the website management's right to call "enough is enough".

The sites rules are made plain, and enforced with great tolerance in my opinion, and I am disappointed people such as yourself feel a need to withdraw due to the banning of Bill etc.

I am sure the management accepts peoples support of Bill, and could/would accept polite PM's expressing disappointment with his loss, but I would hope you reconsider your position and re-engage in the forum, rather than engage in a silent protest?

The forum is diminished through the loss of Bills positive on-topic and off-topic contributions, but strengthened by the enforcement of its rules, it will only be further diminished if people withdraw or reduce participation or involvement, simply because they are not happy with the "umpires decision"?


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Mark Pilkington

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:59 am 
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I have nothing to say about the Bill decision. It was based, apparently, on posts I never read and I trust that it was for the good of the forum. For me personally, it makes the forum less interesting and valuable, that's all. Maybe the forum will now thrive as the tender members driven off by Bill and Wrench return and blossom, and I'll feel the urge to contribute more. Really, it's not a big deal either way.

August

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:58 pm 
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Obviously you can't please everyone. People are upset over the bannings and I understand that. This is a no win situation on my part since there will always be supporters of those banned, usually those that agree with them or were not harassed by them. But let those same people be bothered by someone and I get complaints and banning requests.

Here's the thing, the rules are simple. We just need to get along and when I request that you cease a behavior that is disruptive, and you ignore me 2 dozen times, then your gone. I am way more lenient than other boards but apparently that doesn't matter to some. Well so be it.

I'm disappointed that apparently the ownership of a Spitfire, to some people, means that people deserve special treatment. We are all equal here.

Removing your content and contributions to the forum in a form of silent protest is juvenile and anti-social. If you don't like the policies of the forum then go away and start your own.

There's the door, don't let it hit you on the way out.

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Warbirds Resource Group - Warbird Information Exchange - Warbird Registry - MilitarySciFi.com

Be civil, be polite, be nice.... or be elsewhere.
-------------------------------------------------------
This site is brought to you with the support of members like you. If you find this site to be of value to you,
consider supporting this forum and the Warbirds Resource Group with a VOLUNTARY subscription
For as little as $2/month you can help ($2 x 12 = $24/year, less than most magazine subscriptions)
So If you like it here, and want to see it grow, consider helping out.
And if your doing your holiday shopping on Amazon, consider using the Amazon links on the site to start your shopping, it doesn't cost you anything and helps the site out.
Thanks to everyone who has so generously supported the site. We really do appreciate it.
SUPPORT WIX


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:44 pm 
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k5083 wrote:
I have nothing to say about the Bill decision. It was based, apparently, on posts I never read and I trust that it was for the good of the forum. For me personally, it makes the forum less interesting and valuable, that's all. Maybe the forum will now thrive as the tender members driven off by Bill and Wrench return and blossom, and I'll feel the urge to contribute more. Really, it's not a big deal either way.

August


gotta say I agree. Bill is my friend and I hate he's banned, and I wish there were a better solution. He had interesting comments about flying, which were unfortunately in the end overshadowed by his other postings which all too often were taken as bait by people looking for a fight. I don't know if they were intended as bait, but the end result was the same: way too much nastiness on a board dedicated to love of airplanes. LOVE, people. LOVE. LOVE OR I'LL HAVE TO KILL YOU ALL! *coughs* sorry. I forgot to take my french pills today.

Anyway, I DID read the posts that led to Bill's ban, and they got heated on both sides, and were cranked up by both Bill's perception that he was being stalked and by the Staff's perception that he was posting bait to make fun of the less open minded members of the board. It very quickly turned into the Staff feeling they were trying to be reasonable and Bill angry, cornered, and feeling he was being harassed unfairly.

It's a shame it happened but I am not going to second guess anybody's decisions and actions- Bill or the Staff's. This is Scott's board and he does the best he can to follow HIS moral lights. Every single one of us would do the same. Bill was doing that when he posted- despite what some think he really was trying to follow his moral compass.

This is not my board. I accept all of the decisions made by Scott and his staff, because it IS NOT MY BOARD. I am here because they LET me be here. if I can't play by their rules, why should THEY change? It's their clubhouse, guys. If they ban firearms and alcohol because the God King of Ayiethulsazar says they should, well, it's their clubhouse. If I find the idea of a God King of Ayiethulsazar creepy or stupid I can always go post on the Jewish board or start my own. Bill could not accept that rule because he feels that some things are too important to ignore. He made his decision, and while I'm sure he misses the place, I am also sure he won't have changed his mind about his views on freedom of speech. And honestly, I wouldn't want him to. They make him a guy I like and admire.

As much as I miss Bill, and wish he were here, I must also say that I cracked open a bottle of scotch to celebrate the other ban. I'm sure others feel the same about either Bill or He Who Shall Not Be Named. As August said, there are people who left WIX because they were sick of the fighting. Hopefully, they will come back. They can never replace Bill's Spitfire knowledge or Spitfire love. But they have their own knowledge and love to share and will be welcome.

August, I'm saddened that you found you had to delink your work here. It affected many people beyond those who pushed this confrontation to a boiling point (it was FAR more encompassing than Bill and He Who Shall Not Be Named) and all they ever wanted to do was share information, love of the air, and help each other. I doubt Bill would think it was the honorable thing to do, and I'm honestly surprised to find you doing it. I sincerely hope that you will reconsider it, and that it was based on other reasons as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:24 pm 
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i always feel bad when somebody stirs up the bee hive on this board. these are tough times, & yes we all need to blow off steam, but not on a venue such as this. to subject a multitude of people to your personal frusteration is unfair & unwarranted. nobody needs my baggage & i've got plenty!! but i'm a gentleman & deal with it in my own way. while bill was an asset to this board he crossed the line. nobody is indespensible. i've got an employee in my business who's doing the same b.s. in her own way. she's very valuable & versatile, but i'm the boss & she's not going to wreck the atmosphere for the others that are happy with things. i run a dang good business, & scott runs a 1st class site.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:24 pm 
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For myself my actions were not based on the banning of Bill, if you check the threads about it i thought it was sad it happened END OF STORY

My motivation came from having my posts removed that were on topic and in the proper section buy thinned skinned American mods. That to me is the problem with this forum, mods that remove threads that they don't like but follow the guide lines set out by Scott.

I find it funny how mods will move threads all over the site because their in the wrong section then post their crap in the wrong section, maybe they should lead by example?

Quote:
Removing your content and contributions to the forum in a form of silent protest is juvenile and anti-social. If you don't like the policies of the forum then go away and start your own.

There's the door, don't let it hit you on the way out.


Well Scott I find this quote very juvenile, since in the banning thread when a forum member lost it on you I was the first to defend you. My images and video are MINE and I will do as I please with them.

Maybe you could train the mods when they remove a post to give a reason why ( I mentioned this before in a tthread and got no response. ( typical )

So now you can go back to the mods only section and bash me and August some more ( Yes I hear what goes on in their too, and I am the juvenile :twisted: )

We will talk more in person at Geneseo :roll:

Dave


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