Warbird Information Exchange

Two months ago or so I posted the thread describing the US Government's unbelievable cancellation of all contracts concerning large fixed wing air tankers. The situation while slightly better has not fundamentally changed. Aero Union, operator of the mighty P-3 Orion's has recieved approval to operate them and has done so since last month. The State of Oregon (showing big balls) has contracted with Butler Aviation in Redmond and two days ago I viewed the wonderful sight of seeing two DC-7C's on duty at Redmond. The Butler boys even killed a fire a week or so ago, and proved their worth to the town they do business in. In any case those are the bright spots.

The SEAT or single engine air tankers have been working, and have had 4 accidents this year. Not all were fatal. Unfortunately they are going to be asked to fly in harms way as the mainline air assult on many Fed fires. These are Federal Contracts, so the turbine S-2's are flying for CDF in California on State land fires...

The rest of the operators, pilots and mechanics are in big trouble. For those watching the industry, ARDCO and Hawkins and Powers have put their fleets up for sale. Neptune Inc and Minden Air were handed a near death sentence as the Federals refuse to certify the P-2 Neptune (a product of the early 40's they stated!!) for flight. The entire P-2 fleet has no real economic future outside of scrap metal if this holds. As a related item, the consumption of big radials has virtually stopped, as not operator will need rebuilt 3350's except for Flying Tankers, so this industry will suffer a reversal as well. PB4Y's interestingly are not up for sale as far as I know, so I am not sure if they are able to be sold. C-130A's are good for scrap only, and after seeing one come apart, this is probably a good thing. They are for sale however. In any case the large fleets of recip tankers will probably linger at their respective bases for the rest of the year as the company principals figure out what they can salvage from the ashes. After that they will probably end their days, misunderstood by the same government that had them built.

I really don't care if the 747 is an answer, and I don't want to photograph a firefighting superjet. The appeal and power of the industry to me as a child was what brought me there as a pilot. Flyers who had taken themselves out of the rotation to be a UAL 747-400 Captains and because and despite their superior skill and mechanical ability became oilstained heros. Standing on the hood of my car watching a DC-4 fly down a 50 degree slope to press home an attack, and then hearing the R-2000's powering her out of a canyon trailing remmnants of retardent, ash and smoke in her wake...that was IT! Orbiting a fire in echelon, with a DC-4, C-130A and two S-2's in formation...Of course NOW I really want to try out the 400, so I guess we all grow up.

Log onto the AAP website and board for the latest, but remember its an airtanker pilot site, and the industry heart is their own. No insensitive posting!

Hi

Thanks for this insightful post - it was much appreciated.

On the C130As we had a lot of trouble here in Australia getting rid of ours when the RAAF retired them a decade or more ago so I guess I agree that they are best considered scrap however I think that you could find that a few will be used on famine relief and UN related activities - that is what happened to a few of ours. The UN has no dough and often employs less than imaculate vendors to carry out it's vital work. I guess this would be a more honourable retirement for a few of the tankers.

Kindest regards
John P

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Air Vice Marshall
Sunshine State Air Farce

The C-130A is structurally faulted by an inherent design flaw that was changed for subsequent models. See the Aviation Week crash story that explained the fault and the history of the aircraft in service. the USAF pulled ALL of them for structural reasons years ago. The aircraft is simply not safe for anyone. Perhaps the RAAF ones are different.

Well if this is true then CFB Trenton should get after a Neptune and a mighty C119 transport. The C119 wont even need respraying in RCAF colors!!

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Cheers,
Peter

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Hi Joe

Thanks for your follow up.

I understand your point and although a lot of remedial work was done on the Aussie C130As I agree that no C130A should be flying as a result of this problem. The point I was making though is that in some places they still are flying and I would not be surprised if a few of the C130A's did make their way into the "Grey" Famine / relief / shonky 3rd world transport industry. I don't condone it I just think it will happen.

Kindest regards
John P

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Air Vice Marshall
Sunshine State Air Farce

The loss of tallent is surely going to be the sadest outcome of the groundings. The pilots and maintainence folks will be missed. I know Hawkins & Powers has rebuilt R-2600s for a number of warbird operators.

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Dan Johnson

The ad below was posted at Barnstormers a few days ago.

Now I'm getting inceasingly myopic in my old age, but I think I saw "PB4Y-2" in there somewhere!

So, WIXers: Where shall we base our new corporate Privateer?


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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.