Warbird Information Exchange

August

Good points, thanks.

But if there are licensed pilots out there that need sensationalism and internet stunts to keep them, and more to the point, their innocent passengers, alive, we are in trouble.

_________________
Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

- NTSB issues the preliminary report into the fatal accident involving a MARPAT Aviation Bell UH-1B Iroquois, N98F, that occurred on June 22, 2022, in Logan, West Virginia:
On June 22, 2022, about 1645 eastern daylight time, a Bell UH-1B helicopter, N98F, was destroyed when it was involved in an accident in Amherstdale, West Virginia. The private pilot, two pilot rated passengers and three additional passengers were fatally injured. The helicopter was operated by MARPAT Aviation, LLC, as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 flight.
The flight was associated with the “7th Annual Huey Reunion” during which the operator gave passengers the opportunity to “fly” the former military helicopter with a “safety pilot” seated in the left front seat for a “required donation” or “ride” for a suggested donation. The accident flight was the last flight of the day, and the accident occurred about 15 minutes after departure from Logan County Airport (6L4), Logan, West Virginia. There were no known witnesses to the accident.
The helicopter impacted a rock face about 3.5 nautical miles east of 6L4 and came to rest partially inverted on its right side on an asphalt road. The wreckage spanned the 26-ft road and continued into a ditch at the base of a rock face. The main wreckage was 542 ft past a utility cable that crossed about 180 ft above the road. Two utility cables were fractured consistent with tensile overload and were displaced toward the main wreckage near the roadside at 220 ft and 397 ft from the remaining utility cable. All major components of the helicopter were located in the vicinity of the accident site.
Examination of the wreckage revealed that the cockpit and cabin had impacted the road and a guardrail, and both were consumed by a postimpact fire. The empennage, composed of the tail boom, vertical fin, and horizontal stabilizer, remained attached to the aft fuselage. The right horizontal stabilizer was impact-deformed at its tip and the left horizontal stabilizer was intact. The vertical stabilizer and tail boom were wrinkled. The right landing skid was located adjacent to the aft fuselage; however, first responders stated that it was moved to facilitate rescue efforts. The left landing skid was located in the ditch. Additional wreckage including pieces of Plexiglas, the aft cap of the left skid, a section of a tail rotor blade and a rock with green paint transfer were observed about 40 ft above the wreckage on a ledge of the steep rock face.
Both main rotor blades remained attached to their respective grips and drag braces, which remained attached to the hub. The hub remained attached to the main rotor mast. The main gearbox was present in its normally installed area separated from the airframe. The input driveshaft was separated from both the main gearbox and the engine and was observed under the main gearbox. The leading edge spar of the white main rotor blade was continuous through the blade span with sections of afterbody that had separated from the blade located adjacent to it in the main wreckage. The leading edge spar of the red main rotor blade was continuous to the tip with a chordwise upward bend near the inboard side of the blade. The outboard half of the red main rotor blade exhibited leading edge deformation in the direction opposite of normal rotation and the afterbody in this section was fragmented into multiple pieces that were observed near the main wreckage. The main rotor controls were impact separated in multiple locations from the pitch change links to the swashplate and collective lever control tubes. The main rotor controls forward of the swashplate and collective lever control tubes were consumed by the postimpact fire.
The tail rotor drive train was continuous through the intermediate gearbox and impact-separated between the intermediate and tail rotor gearboxes; however, portions of the forward end were consumed by fire. The tail rotor gearbox input housing remained attached to the vertical fin and the tail rotor gearbox and tail rotor were located intact in the vicinity. Both tail rotor blades exhibited chordwise fractures near their doublers and the outboard portions of the blades were found in the vicinity of the main wreckage. One of the two tail rotor pitch change links was separated from its pitch horn and its hardware was not located. The tail rotor controls were impact separated in multiple locations from the tail rotor to the forward section of the tail boom. The tail rotor controls were consumed by the postimpact fire forward of the tail boom.
The engine remained attached to the engine mounts which were separated from the airframe. The engine gearbox was mostly consumed by the postimpact fire. The engine throttle was near the 100% setting; however, the engine throttle linkage was fractured near the left engine mount connection. Visual examination of the power turbine blades through the engine exhaust revealed that two non-consecutive blades were fractured near their roots and not present. A single power turbine blade of full length was present between the two missing blade locations. There was evidence of tip rubbing between the power turbine blades and the engine case.
The wreckage was retained. The engine and the tail rotor controls were removed for further examination.
Conditions at Accident Site: VMC
Temperature/Dew Point: 32°C /21°C
Wind Speed/Gusts, Direction: 6 knots / ,
Visibility: 10 miles
Condition of Light: Day
Lowest Cloud Condition: Scattered / 4900 ft AGL
Lowest Ceiling: None
Altimeter Setting: 30 inches Hg

_________________
Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

Came down here: 37°52'8.18"N 81°50'32.69"W

_________________
Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

Interesting that the pilot is not commercial rated. IIRC we had to use commercial rated pilots under our exemption.

There appears to be a bunch of *WTF?'s*: Pilot rating, LODA, Flight Instruction, *required* donations to bypass the regs on paying PAX in aircraft with an Experimental ticket... The FAA are going to have a field day with these guys & then the lawyers will finish them off.

_________________
Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

Am I reading that NTSB prelim correctly that they *did* clip wires at some point there?

_________________
Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Thank you zrx.

On the earlier off-topic part: I don't want to get someone in trouble by naming the wrong person, but wasn't there a recent-ish case of a YouTube accident video guy who threatened (or attempted) to run down law enforcement officers in a DC-3/C-47?

_________________
Zac in NZ
#avgeek, modelbuilder, photographer, writer. Callsign: "HANDBAG".
https://linktr.ee/zacyates

"It's his plane, he spent the money to restore it, he can do with it what he wants. I will never understand what's hard to comprehend about this." - kalamazookid, 20/08/2013
"The more time you spend around warbirds the sooner you learn nothing, is simple." - JohnB, 24/02/22

There was indeed...

Yes, that is how I read it with a wire strike being strongly inferred in the preliminary with "The main wreckage was 542 ft past a utility cable that crossed about 180 ft above the road. Two utility cables were fractured consistent with tensile overload and were displaced toward the main wreckage near the roadside at 220 ft and 397 ft from the remaining utility cable. All major components of the helicopter were located in the vicinity of the accident site...."

The preliminary usually just states facts (ie Power lines fractured). The findings/conclusions or probable causes are released with the investigation, but I think we have a very strong hint of what happened in the prelim.

There are YT videos of them flying low in the valleys around the airport, but this happened in a different area to their usual route.

_________________
Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

Thanks for the NTSB post. So it looks like Dan was correct. He must have gone to the site or had access to info .

I take Dan's stuff with a massive amount of salt at times, but I do think it's unfair to claim he "attempted to" or "threatened" to run down law enforcement. There's multiple news articles on the incident from 3rd parties and none actually support this assertion (see here for example - https://www.avweb.com/news/pilot-arrested-after-airport-incident/). There was a pissing contest between Dan and some local politicians who decided they didn't like having a "big old plane" flying out of their local airport (gee, how often have we heard this on this forum?) and tried to get rid of him. They started a campaign of harassment against him, including the mentioned citations. Because the local PD had been told he was a "nuisance" and "threat" they treated him as such, applying multiple charges that didn't hold up in court (all charges were dropped) and in the end, the politicians were replaced and time went on.

Yes, he's a very colorful character. Yes, he doesn't have the greatest reputation. But I think he's no different than a bunch of other known names in aviation and warbirds who've done quite similar things over the years, including at least 2 that are in a Hall of Fame of note and one who had a whole TV series that got him in more trouble because he continued to be his normal unfiltered self.

I watch his stuff because he's got a point. He's been right far more times in his videos than he's been wrong, and he's causing conversation *and* change in how things are done. Things that should have been changed years, if not decades ago.

With the correct exemption you can “charge” or “require” a donation to obtain a ride. Usually it is a donation to the museum or entity flying the aircraft. Then a Perk of membership is a ride in the experimental registered aircraft. All within regs it done correctly.

That's how the Indiana guys have done it for years: You join the museum for $x & as a member you get a flight. It appears that's not how Marpat did it though.
Some use the term "familiarization flights" & I've heard another term that I can't recall right now.

_________________
Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

You guys need to table Dan G in this thread. His people skills are an "F" , we can all agree. He does try to get to the seminal facts and causes of high profile accidents. In the "Church Citation het" crash, everyone here in Nashville feel those pilots were incredibly foolish and incompetent. The saying here is "God has a way of taking out the false prophets." It was a $150K junk jet and they didn't want to pay to hire a day pilot to get them to south Florida. In this case, Dan isn't too harsh at all. '
In this Huey crash it comes down to this; Why were they flying below 500' AGL? That's an FAA regulation. What was their reason? That alone would've prevented the crash as the aircraft appears to have been in good working condition and they didn't call for help. This accident has the appearance of a bunch of amateurs or worse. conducting "amateur hour." Sadly, a lot of people are grieving, and there will be massive lawsuits because this fatal accident didn't have to happen. There was inadequate oversight and a "Culture of Safety."