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 Post subject: USAF Jeep photo request
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:32 am 
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I finally took the plunge and bought a 1955 M38A1 (looks like a CJ-5) Jeep.
It's in very good shape and I got it for a very reasonable price.
During some refurbishment, I have decided to paint it in late '50s - early '60s Air Force markings.

For the originality police out there, that should be "legal" since there aren't any records of Jeep transfers from the Army (the purchaser and contract authority) to the Air Force, let alone a vehicle history card. Most Jeeps on that period were painted Army OD at the factory, then repainted blue when transferred. Later, some were painted blue at the factory. Some, used in Korea or used as ground FAC vehicles were always green

Since I grew up in Air Bases and have always loved
Jeeps, it seems natural enough.
Also, one of our neighbors, who in a few years would win the Silver Star over N. Vietnam flying RF-101s (and retire as a wing CC), taught me how to drive in his surplus A1 on the deserted base roads by the stables and ammo dump.

After looking at several online Military vehicle forums, I'm surprised by the lack of information out thete. Doing a Google search brings up just a few photos.

So, anyone here have period photos of AF Strata Blue Jeeps in that period?

When done, I can get photos of it next to the local L-20 Beaver in '50s colors as well as the T-28A in natural metal finish. The T-28 owner said he'd give me a flight in the Trojan for a ride in the Jeep. Somehow, I think I'm getting the better deal!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:44 am 
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I went through the same frustrations regarding a USAF M151A2. I doubt my google can find anything yours can't, but here is what little I saw. Granted, most of these are restorations. The good news is that the AF appeared to use the same format for markings whether Willys, M38, M151, Chevy, etc.

https://blog.kaiserwillys.com/a-strata- ... 8a1-driver

https://www.usafpolice.org/security-pat ... icles.html

https://8thmob.org/member.photos/DonHor ... ne72_1.jpg

http://www.ewillys.com/category/M38A1/page/2/?tag=stock

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/61/22/c7/6122 ... 336162.jpg

https://images.fineartamerica.com/image ... k-gray.jpg

http://willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules/gall ... in_tx7.jpg

http://www.willysmjeeps.com/v2/modules. ... pic&t=6682

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brooklands/4866845391/

http://nrvmagazine.com/1954-willys-jeep/

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:00 am 
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Congrats on the purchase! I haven't found any period pictures, but I have seen this BEAUTIFUL M38 for sale on FB marketplace, Hope it helps:
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1178984835919779/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Aadd50159-ffba-4f56-9637-56695089a0fb

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1952 M38. Complete Restoration finished in 1995. 24 Volt System. Vehicle was stationed at Grenier Air Force Base in Manchester, NH before being sold at military auction. Spotless condition. Any questions can be answered. Flawless condition


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:25 am 
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Very cool, John! If you post your restoration progress somewhere, I hope you’ll let us know. I would love to follow!

I checked Flickr and likewise, only found restored photographs.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:57 am 
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Sounds like a neat project John! have fun.

We can all chime in later after you paint it that you got the wheel well colors "wrong"! :lol: :axe:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:37 am 
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If you can find Air Force T.O. 36-1-3 "Painting Marking and Lighting Requirements for Air Force Vehicles" it should have most of what you need. The one I've got of the intenet is from 1993 but it still has a lot of older vehicles including the Security Forces jeeps in it. The drawings don't look like they have changed from the originals.

James


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:05 am 
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Your best bet for period photos might be the movies. The McConnell Story is one I can recall that has a strata blue jeep (m38 not an A1) and also 'This Island Earth'. Several more I wish I could recall. Maybe Strategic Air Command.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:28 pm 
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I strongly recommend this forum for any Jeep questions: https://forums.g503.com/index.php

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:10 pm 
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Perhaps off subject but I have something ... different. A 1950 Willys-Overland JeepSTER. W-O deciding starting 1947 to build a Jeep "sports-car" patterned essentially after the MG. Perhaps the closest thing to this is the VW "thing". They only made 19,000 of these, but more than 1,000 are still registered on a collector's web site. No military record, but these were made for the GI-market.

Kevin


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:08 pm 
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John,

You may want to try to track down and speak with this gentleman…

https://youtu.be/N-b1-107mgU

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:40 pm 
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Thanks for the photos and suggestions.

As you can see...even the same model of Jeep as seen on the Facebook photos posted and Craig's YouTube suggestion have different markings on the hood (U.S.A.F. vs U.S. AIR FORCE, then serial and "For Official Use Only).

Jamesintucson: I have the AF TO, like you, the later version.

Pinrcastleaaf: Great idea for color photos. I have SAC, don't have McConnell.
I do have A early '60 picture book of SAC operations, while it won't have Jeeps, it will show staff cars to tell me that markings do on which side of the rear of the vehicle (MAJCOM/base on one side and unit on the other).I

p51: I have been to g503 and the Steel Soldiers forums. While both are helpful, many posters there have the same questions I do. So far, no one has come up with 100% consistent answers!
I also am in contact with a friend who is a MVPA (Military Vehicle Preservation Assoc) member and writes for their magazine. So I'm not going off half cocked here.

Old Iron: I'm familiar with Jeepsters, having seen a few at shows. Fun and neat (but like VW Things, likely more fun to look at them actually drive!) but not what I'm looking for since I already have a sports car and vintage roadster. This is pure nostalgia and history.

I have decided to put my dad's unit at the time the Jeep was made (and I was born) on the bumper.
So...62 TCW MATS LAFB (Larson Air Force Base). I looked at his flying records to confirm the 62nd was a wing at that time.
I plan on changing those periodically to reflect units I was assigned to, although that was loooong after Jeeps were out of service.
Rather like the retired pilot on the YouTube video.

As an aside, when I was in the service I only saw one USAF "Jeep", a 1980s CJ-8 Scrambler assigned to the base Comm Squadron. By then, the service has switched to pickups.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:04 pm 
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Good luck on your project. I've always had a soft spot for the strata blue AF jeeps. In my collection of photos I have some of a strata blue M3A1 Half-track. The paint faded to a sort of pink. I tried hard to buy it but could never pull it off. It was a time capsule, totally complete. I think the Air Police had a few half-tracks and scoutcars along with the M20 armored cars.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:38 am 
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Looking through a bunch of USAF SP/MP pictures and seeing Jeeps in old photos and there doesn't seem to be a lot of standardization in the early years on Jeep markings.

https://www.usafpolice.org/1940s.html

https://www.usafpolice.org/1950s.html

https://www.usafpolice.org/1960s.html

https://www.usafpolice.org/security-pat ... icles.html

The last link has the following ".......Hill Air Force Base Museum and they were able to find me a publication T.O. 36-1-3 that came out in 1958 on the markings of USAF vehicles.......". Page from the 1958 T.O. 36-1-3 from that link. So with the exception of SP specific markings this is how a 50s era USAF Jeep would be marked.


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2357522_orig.jpg [ 148.71 KiB | Viewed 1334 times ]

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:27 pm 
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Ffuries..
Many thanks!
As you said, there really wasn't much standardization despite the Tech Order.
Maybe they should be renamed T.S. for Technical Suggestions?

I have seen "U.S.A F. " on the hood.
"U.S. Air Force" on the hood and below the door opening (as the T.O. above shows); the full Army Serial; an abbreviated (Army?) Serial prefixed by "A" (for Air Force?); and the more modern AF serial beginning with the FY of purchase, followed by B or K then four or five digits. So my Jeep would be 55KXXXX.
The "For Official Use Only" title is either on the hood below the serial or sometimes below the door opening by itself when the numbers are on the hood.

It's odd the T.O. above shows "A" after the FY, the std. AF code was B for "off the shelf" vehicles like cars or pickups (see the '64 Ford Galaxies in the '60s link above) and K for "tactical" (designed for the military, like the M38A1 or later M151).
That means a CJ-7 as seen in the bottom link above, would have been designated "B". (Any Jeeps bought since the late-60s would have been CJ-5 or 7s, since production of the military-spec M38A1 ended in the mid-60s. Although they look similar, M38A1s and CJ-5s have many important differences).

The TO as seen above does clarify which side of the bumper to put the Major Command and Base initials (the left, but a photo in the above link of a police truck in the UK in the '60s has it on the right!).

Another issue with the T.O...it shows the code on the other side of the bumper as "A-2" when all the other reference I've seen list the Jeep (of whatever model) as "A-1".

So in short, just like aircraft markings, there are plenty of deviations from what is considered "normal".

And there are huge differences in the Strata Blue paint color despite having a Federal Stock Number.
I am a bit surprised (but not exactly shocked :roll:) by all the discrepancies.
I thought it would be more cut and dry.

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Last edited by JohnB on Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:57 am 
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So the good news, John, is that you can do this project as you deem correct and it is unlikely you'll receive any meaningful criticism.

For my two cents, authenticity in fonts and font size are just as important as the markings themselves and can salvage the appearance of an unintentional oversight. I've done stuff that was spot-on and I've also goofed; seen both sides.

I still bat around the eventual repaint of my M151A2. There just aren't enough details out there, as you've confirmed.

Ken

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