Warbird Information Exchange

Hi Everyone,

I currently have a project to recover a Bristol Beaufighter from the Mediterranean sea, the recovery project will be filmed by the BBC for a TV documentry and will cover the story behind the aircrafts loss and the story of what happened to the crew. Some details can be found in the links below.

https://samilhistory.com/2018/01/28/fin ... aufighter/

https://www.ww2wrecks.com/portfolio/fou ... mber-1944/

The last dive on the aircraft was 2 months ago and as you can see from the pictures below the aircraft is complete and in pretty remarkable condition. The aircraft was to be sold to a museum who intended to display it initially and put together the funding to eventually restore her to flight. Due to Covid and loss of revenue from visitors the museum no longer has the funds to take the aircraft so the project can't proceed until we find a new home for the aircraft.


Im looking for serious expressions of interest from Museums, private collectors and Aviation Enthusiast Groups who would be interested in taking the aircraft when its recovered. There would be a cost involved as we have to cover the recovery costs but ideally we would like to see the aircraft static displayed or restored so the full story of the aircraft could be told.

we would be happy for any interested bodies to be actively involved in the recovery and the initial conservation works required as soon as the aircraft reaches the surface. the aircraft can be dismantled for shipping anywhere worldwide in a 40ft shipping container direct from Greece. i have full permission from the RAF to recover the aircraft and ownership documents from them.

There are currently no flying Beaufighters, 2 are currently being restored to flying condition, one in the UK and the other in Australia. None of these are combat veterans. I believe this is a one off opportunity to acquire a really rare historic aircraft that was flown by highly decorated crew and deserves to be preserved for future generations.

i have a 4k video of the last dive and will be happy to share it with interested parties, please send me a message for further information.

I just finished a book "Angels with Wings" about the formation of the Israeli Air Force and the creation of their country. They had a squadron of Beaufighters that gave them good service and the type was well liked. I would contact their national Air Force museum as they don't have an example.

For a first post..... Thumbs up!

Well it looks good, but how rotten is it?
And even if the airframe is sound, are the engines available and supported?

Not that anyone has asked me, but...
I'd like it to go to the UK...it would mean more to more people there than anywhere else.
I have a minor nit to pick with the UK warbird community, they have (according to the WIX thread), 40 flying Spitfires, 10 Hurricanes, 6 Mustangs, 5 Yak variants...so there are enthusiasts and money in the Uk...but when it comes to restoring and operating multi engine types, there doesn't seem to be a lot of support or desire to see iconic types like the Mosquito and Beaufighter fly in the UK.

Yes it's nice that private groups and firms fly the Sally B and Just Jane is being prepped to fly..and the few C-47s and the PBY...but overall, their interest seems to be fighter-centric.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

Maybe from the collective memory of seeing these fighter planes in action over their own home turf, defending the realm, while the bombers flew out at night and (hopefully) returned in the morning, without being witnessed in action?
(attempt at profundity done, now back to trainer serial and code questions as usual )

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All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

The warbird scene and preserving historic artifacts do not go together very well.
I will give you a scenario of what can happen ( and has happened on other aircraft )
- the Beaufighter is recovered
- the plane is transferred to a restoration facility
- an existing Beaufighter project is bought by unknown party and disappears
- the Beaufighter from the sea miraculously appears to be restored and emerges from restoration facility with original data plate
- Garbage bins behind the restoration facility is now complete filled with recovered parts minus data plate
- Owner now has flying Beaufighter with proven combat history

Yes i agree with what your saying but a lot of the original aircraft wouldn't be suitable to be restored if it was ever to get a licence to fly again due to salt water corrosion. I would rather that happened and the story of the aircraft and its crew was told than it be left to crumble on the seabed.

i think a hell of a lot of the WW2 aircraft flying now are less than 20% of the original plane, Its the nature of the beast when trying to get an aircraft airworthy again and comply with all the modern regulations.

So what is the price of entry, shipped to a major port? It will probably cost $10M USD to restore, similar to what might have been spent on the similar in scope P-82 restoration.

We are only looking to cover our recovery cost of around $150,000 so not a huge sum.

Fully agree: I've said similar myself, only to be flamed that, "it's great to see yet another P-51/Spitfire etc in the air". I do hope this artifact gets recovered and placed where it can't be "restored". Much as I love seeing replica P-51s, Spitfires etc, I also like to know that it's not at the expense of our collective heritage.

So what's the alternative?
-A bunch of corroded bits in:
1. The sea.
2. A museum where they may not be seen by many. Both outcomes keeps its precious dataplate intact.
Or
-A flying aircraft...albeit with modern systems, and all the critical parts are new. Downside, not a lot of recognizable bits for display.
But people get to see an aircraft its element...and it will be seen as a tribute to It's designers, builders and crews.

Your seemingly preferred outcome would mean there would be few warbirds flying. (Unless you can talk the FAA, CAA , Transport Canada, etc into allowing "replicas" to fly w/o dataplates. Good luck in today's regulatory and litigious climate).

Don't be too disfainful of "replica" Spitfires and Mustangs.
True, they don't have much WWII period metal in them, but it's better than nothing. Some/many here (I'm tempted to call them old metal snobs) would seem to prefer corroded bits on display somewhere instead the number of airworthy aircraft we enjoy today.

A few weeks back, I made a comment about a friend's Mustang.
Someone here said "It's just another new Mustang".
True it has a lot of new metal in it, but it's better than his (nonexistent) Mustang and it, and its owner, does more to support the warbird hobby and the remembrance of history, technology and veterans than some guy at a keyboard griping about the age of the metal out on the ramp.

While I understand your point and am sympathetic to what you're saying...
You can't have it both ways...

1)If it stays where it is, it'll eventually dissolve anyway.

2)Its been in the sea too long to restore it by saving what's left of it - it will be too far gone, so a restoration will be saving what bits you can, and incorporate them into a new build.

3)A museum with significant resources and facilities could take on a conservation once out of the water, but that a serious undertaking, as witnessed by the RAFM recovery of the Do17 from the English Channel.

Point well and truly missed, and the same old 'argument' which gets us no further along. So just take a look at how archaeologists treat artifacts and maybe you will understand. But possibly not. So let's fill the holes in the Sphinx and give Stonehenge a few new blocks. Maybe a sandblast too? Yeah you're right - so long as people don't get bored, who cares about it? The world of classic cars has woken up to this issue a while ago and with luck we'll still have some aviation heritage left when the warbird industry finally takes its head out of its ass.

Stabilize and preserve.Malta has a P40 and a Stuka that has been recovered from the seabed..The Do17 in the Uk is another good example.It takes a lot of time.

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If the CO ask,s you to be Tail End Charlie...Just Shoot Him..A Piece of Cake

I think you are missing an very important point hete..flying an airplane is not like maintaining a building or keeping the original upholstery and she-checked paint on an old car.

I write for a classic car mahazine, so I'm well versed in the "don't restore* movement in the old car world. True, a lot of old cars received unnecessary overdone restorations in the past.
Patching up a old car enough to make it move under its own power is fine. But, unlike an airplane, the driver isn't risking his life in it.

In autos, I would argue when something had degraded to the point that it no longer represents its original function, stronger remedial work than just conservation is necessary.
Example...an old car..say a Rolls Royce...has its original 1920s interior.
But it is rotted, water stained and has been home to generations of racoons. It looks like a rats next and is not in keeping with the original automobile.
If you keep it the way it is, you are not presenting it to future generations the way Mr. Royce envisioned. All You are doing is preserving scraps of urine soaked fabric, not education people about an early automobile.
In short, if you have to put a horse blanket over a seat to avoid getting tetanus from rusty springs, the original interior has gone to Jesus and it's time to call an upholstery shop. Have them do it In original material. Simple.

In one article some idiot said he refused to polish the brass radiator of his 1910 Buick to preserve originality. Huh? The owner a century ago would have polished it. So, even good intentions can be taken to a ridiculous extreme.

Then you have the question of if you want to operate the old auto are You going to keep it story or do sensible (and usually invisible) upgrades for safety. Converting a pre -1964 car to dial brake system?
Better, new technology tires (remember the 100 year old tires it was found with won't hold air so you won't be 100% original in any account)?

You dismiss my points as being the "Old argument" that gets us no further along.
If You read my reply...carefully...you note I don't advocate being a historic vandal...rather, I made the blindingly obvious point that you can't have it both ways.
Once again...under current rules the Beaufighter can either be a static exhibit or flying.
Can't be both.

For a rare type like the Bristol...ask yourself, what would be the best use of the airframe. An unrestored airframe sitting somewhere or flying as it was originally meant to do?

Instead of coming across with the attitude of "I know best" try to be open to other points of view instead of just dismissing them.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.