Warbird Information Exchange

Hello, I would like to ask whether F4F-3 BuNo 3872 is currently displaying with its original cowling specification and what engine do this aircraft currently equipped with. 3872 was from the F4F-3 batch 3856/3874. Some sources claimed that this batch of aircraft were equipped with R-1830-86 engine, have a cowling that have large cowl flap on the upper part of the cowl and the intake on top of the cowl was eliminated. However, I never seen any photo featured this specification and some sources have conflicting information, could anyone verify whether the spec description is correct? Is there any pre-war/ wartime photo of this batch aircraft? Could the current 3872 serve as an accurate representation of this batch? Thank you

For those of us who haven't memorized the serials of surviving Wildcats, where is (orwho owns it operates) the aircraft you are asking about?

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

This one: http://www.warbirdregistry.org/f4fregis ... -3872.html

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I have been trying to verify that F4F-3s in that Bu. No. range were configured as you describe, but so far I can not do that definitively.
3872 does currently sport the intake lip on the top of the cowl and the large cowl flap. Whether or not that is correct I am not sure. It was an arrangement that was used on the prior batches of F4F-3 Wildcats. I do not know what engine she carriers (should be an R-1830-86), but the setup is for a two stage/two speed supercharger (intercooler intakes inside the cowl).



The next batch (3970-4057) did indeed have the intake moved inside the cowl and the cowl flaps were three on top, one small lower.

3976 (F-1) and 3986 (F-13) illustrate that. This is an often published photo of Thach and O'Hare.



And as for conflicting information on Wildcats: Yeah, there is a lot.

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Had God intended for man to fly behind inline engines, Pratt & Whitney would have made them.

CB

http://www.angelfire.com/dc/jinxx1/Desrt_Wings.html

I’m afraid the folks at Pensacola mixed their color schemes with their aircraft configurations - not an uncommon choice for museums in the old days. (I know we had a few aircraft at NASM painted to represent paint schemes they never wore, though that practice became far less common over the last 30 years.)

The highly visible aircraft marked as 72-F-7 was BuNo 1871, a much earlier F4F-3 than 3872. The aircraft on display was probably delivered in overall (wings included) dull aluminum lacquer with black tail planes. (The tail sub-assemblies had been painted before the new aluminum camouflage was added to the contract; BuAer allowed Grumman to attach the black tails without requiring a repaint.) There is a possibility 3872 was one of the first aircraft delivered in overall Light Gray camouflage, though BuAer records suggest this camouflage was a repaint applied at NAS Norfolk.

As for F4F-3 production engines and cowls, here's a rough breakdown based on BuAer and Grumman records. For more details, I unashamedly recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Aircraft-Pictori ... 007&sr=8-1

F3F-3s up to BuNo 1864 – the entire engine cowl was split into an upper half and a lower half. The Carb intake was set above the cowl, with the ducting built into the upper cowl half. (In flight, the ducts proved too weak, collapsing under pressure and choking off carb air. The ducts for the intercoolers were mounted in the lower cowl, with the intakes at the 4:00 and 8:00 positions. A single cowl cooling flap was mounted on each side of the upper half. The engine was the R-1830-76.

F4F-3s 1865 thru 2538 – Introduced a five-piece cowling and slightly larger (20-inch) single cowl flap on either side. The single-piece cowl ring still mounted the carb and intercooler intakes, but all ducting aft of the cowl was secured to the engine mounts rather than the cowl panels. The engine is still the R-1830-76.

F4F-3s 3856 thru 3874 – Continued problems with collapses of the cowl-mounted sections carb intake duct lead Grumman to redesign the cowl ring, moving the carb intake inside and beneath the ring. No other changes.

F4F-3As 3875 thru 3969 – Similar to 1865-2538, but the R-1830-90 and a single-stage supercharger; with no need for intercoolers, the twin intercooler ducts are deleted.

F4F-3s 3970 thru 4057 – Introduce the R-1830-86, reintroduce the intercoolers, intakes, and ducts, redesigned cowl with four flaps per side

F4F-3s 12230 thru 12329 – introduce the new cowl ring and integral carb intake commonly seen on F4F-4s and FM-2s.

So Pensacola's F4F-3 carries an earlier color scheme and a later cowl configuration. Considering the damage to the aircraft's original cowl, and the fact that only 107 aircraft flew with that distinctive cowl, Pensacola's beautiful restoration still falls in the category of "totally reasonable." (I might have had some issues if they'd painted an FM-2 like this!)

Anyway, I hope this helps!

Cheers,



Dana

Great info Dana!

I'm a bit confused, you mention "and the fact that only 107 aircraft flew with that distinctive cowl" while the OP references "F4F-3 batch 3856/3874" which is only 18 a/c. ???

I've re-read yours and his posts enough times that my eyes are spinning, what am I missing?

Is the diagram of cowling detail in Post #1 of 3856/3874 with an exterior carb intake and large single upper cowl flap incorrect?

http://joebaugher.com/navy_serials/secondseries1.html
Looks like the majority of 3856/3874 where loaned to the British for training and returned. Did they keep US paint schemes?

Hi Mike,

Sorry for the confusion - my fault entirely. I had intended to distinguish the F4F-3A cowl rings (3875 thru 3969) as an anomaly, retaining the older integral carb intake/cowl ring, then spring back to the next batch of dash-threes as having the circular cowl with carb intakes below the lip. I mentioned the other changes on 3970 thru 4057 without explaining that the circular cowl was still used on this range of aircraft. So 3875-3969 gives us 19 aircraft, and 3970-4057 gives us 88 aircraft for a total of 107 aircraft with the circular cowl ring and carb intake mounted inside the cowl.

The drawings in the other publications were accurate, but the BuNo ranges noted were not.

Additionally, I believe the integral carb intake on the later Wildcats was much wider than on the original production aircraft. I don't have drawings that address this either way, but I suspect that's what I'm seeing. The wider carb intakes certainly would have helped reduce the internal pressures that fractured the ducts.

I didn't go too far into the British Martlets/Wildcats - the early ones were purchased outright, so US records are sparse, and the Lend-Lease records were incomplete in Record Group 72. I know that several Martlets were grabbed by the Navy to help over training needs. Perhaps some of the 3856-3874 aircraft were traded to the Brits in an attempt to balance the books. Like I said, I've very little information on the British aircraft.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,


Dana