Warbird Information Exchange

It does look like the de-ice tank/truck parking area around here: https://goo.gl/maps/ymfT1CkFb1JJUBu98

A good 600 feet south of the runway.

Terrible.

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One witness claimed only one engine was running at the time of the crash. Take that with a grain of salt.

https://www.wfsb.com/interview-wwii-pla ... 4b628.html

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Like the rest of you, I'm scrambling for any info.
If that aviation safety link is correct, they asked to land 5 minutes after taking off? If so, of course that would point to some problem they were aware of right after wheels left the runway.
I, too, have seen mention of more than one engine being out before the landing attempt.
In the coming hours, days, and weeks, we'll get a much better idea of what the heck happened here.
I just badly hope those fatality reports were in error!

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

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Tragic. Any loss in the warbird community is a loss for us all. Our thoughts and sympathies are with our colleagues at the Collings Foundation and the families of those aboard.

KK

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Kevin Kearney
Vice President
Berlin Airlift Historical Foundation


C-54D "Spirit of Freedom" 43-17228
C-97 "Angel of Deliverance" 52-2718 (painted as YC-97A 45-59595)
C-54E/R5D-4 "Spirit of Freedom" 44-9144 BuNo 90414 (wfu April/2020)
http://www.spiritoffreedom.org

Contrast that with another eyewitness describing a single-engine failure with smoke, and difficulty maintaining altitude.

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"They done it, they done it, damned if they ain't flew." December 17, 1903

Yes - in the second link I posted with no text the witness interviewed said they lost number 3 shortly after takeoff.

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CLick to hear LiveATC recording -

Reports problem with "#4 engine" after first contact at 18:42 but, oddly, never declared an emergency.

A single-engine failure likely wouldn't lead to this. Heck, I was on their B-24 and they had all four turning on take off then immediately shut down #4 because of issues they knew. I was told later that they had to have 4 turning on take off but they could go with three so they only had # 4 turning so they could head to the next stop to do the repairs they were going to do then.
Any multi-engine rated jock worth anything could handle #3 going out. I'd bet on something more than that, as I'd think they went off the side of the runway on landing?

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

Witness reported #3 not running, audio says issue with #4 engine.

That was my first thought as well. B-17's had what...an 8000 lb bomb load capacity, while carrying full fuel, and a boat load of other equipment during the war. 13 people on board and assuming 1/2 a load of gas at best, 3 engines should be able to handle that without a problem...even without the quadrants pushed all the way to the firewall. I'm really curious to see what actually happened here. I remember seeing her back in the mid-late 80's...this one is really striking a chord. My thoughts and prayers are with the perished and injured and their families.

Possible they had issues with 3&4. 4 started acting up, called tower, then 3 began acting up, with 3 quitting. Loss of even partial thrust on both engines from one side would cause a tough time for the pilots and it would drag to the right, and they flew a right pattern with the aircraft hitting the tanks WAY off the right side of the runway.

My theory ony, but it fits the evidence so far. Im very interested to see what the final investigation says. As mentioned, the collings are a top notch group so I am surprised something like this happened.

For me, Nine O Nine holds a special place. For some reason, when things in my life were pretty bad, it would pop into my life unexpected and cheer things up. Near the end of working to get my A & P I was disgusted and upset and went for a long drive towards Palm Springs in SoCal. At my grumpiest all of a sudden a huge shadow went over with a roar and she passed me fairly low heading west. I chased her to San Bernardino airport and checked he out. My wife, who is much younger went on at length about how cool she thought B-17's were without knowing I had an interest in aviation. The next weekend by chance Collings was in Riverside and we went on our first official date to see her. My wife had never seen a B 17 in person and it was a great day. Later, as I got deeper into aviation, many of my friends had associations with the plane here and there. The loss of life is horrible, but for me, in this case, the loss of the aircraft makes me very sad too....

Thanks for the ATC link. It was about 4 minutes from their first radio call to hearing the ELT in the background. Having flown on their B-25 a decade ago, I agree that the Collings Foundation folks seem like a very professional group. Being an airline check airman, I’m always amazed and a bit shocked at the hesitancy for some pilots to declare a “Mayday” or “Pan-Pan” in a situation like this. That said, Yes, the “startle factor” is a real thing; ask Sully. And perhaps that is what prevented them from an immediate declaration of either one and ATC having to query them for clarification. Just an extremely tragic and sad loss on all levels.

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Cheers,

Craig

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