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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:41 pm 
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Hey Gang,

I'm looking for any info regarding Lt. Gordon Sterling Jr and what the P-36 looked like he flew at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/ghsterlingjr.htm

I'm assuming that the P-36 was painted in the same scheme as Phil Rasmussen's "86" but if thats the case, then what number did it have? Any leads or info would really be apprecitaed. Thanks!

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Last edited by Warbird Kid on Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:50 am 
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Some of the P-36s were painted OD by then.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:57 am 
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Col. Rohr,

I believe that David Aiken died a short while back.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:56 am 
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Hey Guys,

I'm bumping this thread to see if anyone can still help with this image / paint scheme search. It'd be great to see what Sterling's P-36 looked like, especially since we may see it on a flying replica. I've been contacted by Sam Watrous from http://scalebirds.com/ of South Eastern Connecticut. Him and his team are building a 55% scale P-36 and they'd like to pay homage to the Connecticut native, Gordon Sterling who lost his life that day on Dec 7th.

Image

Quote:
"We are working to get our P-36 ready for Sun N Fun 2020 which is coming up fast. Was wondering if you had any more info on the pain scheme for Mr. Sterling's P-36 - or images from the squadron aircraft? We really like the idea of honoring Sterling and the P-36 with his scheme."

Sterling (while being assigned to the 46th Pursuit Squadron) apparently jumped in the only available P-36 from the 45th Pursuit Squadron. So what did it look like? It's seemingly impossible to find any other paint scheme for Pearl Harbor P-36s other than:

Philip Rasmussen's P-36
Image

Lt. Harry Brown's P-36
Image

http://wpalette.com is fairly helpful with at least cataloging known profile images of all kinds of aircraft, but its still lacking. The ONLY kind of evidence for what Sterling's P-36 MAY have looked like comes from Jerry Crandall's painting: "Combat Over Kaneohe" which shows Sterling's P-36 in the background on fire. I reached out to the artist and they weren't able to give me any information on the topic.

Image
A better picture of Jerry's painting is here:
http://www.eagle-editions.com/limited-edition-art/limited-edition-aviation-prints/combat-over-kaneohe.html

1. So what did 45th Pursuit Squadron P-36s look like on Dec 7th? Were they silver? Green?

2. Has anyone ever found Sterling and the wreckage of his P-36 off the Oahu coast?

3. Does anyone have any viable contacts I could reach out to?

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CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
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Last edited by Warbird Kid on Fri Feb 28, 2020 2:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:20 am 
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Of all the pictures I've seen of wrecked P-36's at Pearl Harbor, I don't recall ever seeing anything other than O.D. birds.

Here is a picture of them reclaiming parts

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9MCoTWXJvmLT9fBP9

Brandon


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:05 pm 
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The only other post-attack photo of P-36s (and a P-26) I've seen shows olive drab:
Image

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:26 am 
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Sorry, can't help with Sterling's P-36, but here is a photo of Rassmussen's P-36 post-combat. Found this on-line, link attached.
https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/P-36/USAAF- ... 942-01.jpg

It's the only non-Olive Drab P-36 I've seen, that can be dated to the time of the attack (and only by the bullet holes that are being inspected). Also of interest, the rubber on the tailwheel has been shot off, or stripped during rough landing.
...geoff


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:31 pm 
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Have you seen this webpage?
Photo of P-36 flown by Lewis Sanders of the 46th PS, Sterling flew another of the squadrons P-36s in the same combat. Quite possibly with a similar paint scheme.

http://www.euro-downloads.com/gazette/G166.htm

...geoff


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:25 am 
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bearoutwest wrote:
Have you seen this webpage?
Photo of P-36 flown by Lewis Sanders of the 46th PS, Sterling flew another of the squadrons P-36s in the same combat. Quite possibly with a similar paint scheme.

http://www.euro-downloads.com/gazette/G166.htm

...geoff

I was going to reference that photo but you beat me to it.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:39 pm 
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Did Sterling crash in Kaneohe Bay or offshore?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:10 pm 
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I guess I'm now the last remaining Hawaii Aviation Archaeologist. I have a file on Sterling and a theory about what happen to him.
I'll begin by posting this story by Mr. David Aikens:
Pearl Harbor's lost P-36 Flight Journal > Oct 2002 > Article
Attachment:
lostp36.jpg


On that fateful day in December 1941, the Japanese weren't the only ones flying over Pearl Harbor. In fact, more than 70 American aircraft were airborne during the Japanese attack. A dozen U.S. planes were shot down, including two by friendly ground fire. But because of the day's chaos, the aerial corn bat losses of December 7 were never fully accounted for. The crashes were unwitnessed and unrecoverable because SCUBA gear had not yet been invented.
Five planes carrying nine crewmen are still missing in Hawaiian waters. Five were USS Enterprise crewmen, three were coast artillery enlisted men, and one was a USAAF pilot: Gordon Sterling-the sole U.S. Army Air Force pilot still counted as missing. He was in the first American air combat with the mysterious Zero fighter, and he paid the ultimate price. His P-36 crashed off Oahu's east coast.
"I'M NOT COMING BACK"
The U.S. Army's fighters at Wheeler Field, in the middle of Oahu, were the targets of the first Japanese wave. Smoke from burning planes concealed several P-36s and prevented them from being hit, and they were immediately taxied away from the fires.
The U.S. military's counter-- sabotage plan was to park the aircraft unarmed; guns and ammunition were stored separately in (and had to be rescued from) the now-burning nearby hangars. During the lull between the first and second waves of Japanese planes, 2nd Lt. Henry W. Lawrence helped load the sole surviving 45th Pursuit Squadron (PS) P-36. Because the P-36 had only .50- and .30-caliber guns, the arming was short. When the fighter was ready, Lawrence ran to his squadron commander, Capt. Aaron Tyer, for orders. Tyer gave him flight directions, and Lawrence headed back to the flightline.
Meanwhile, lst Lt. Lewis M. Sanders, the commander of the 46th PS, had managed to save his personal P-36 and was ready to fight back. He chose three of his pilots to fly with him in other salvaged P-36s, including that 45th PS P-36 that Lawrence had already armed. Second Lt. John M. Thacker, who had a few more hours on the advanced P-40, was made element leader. Sanders chose 2nd Lt. Philip M. Rasmussen as wingman; 2nd Lt. Othneil Norris became Thacker's wingman. The wingmen had recently passed their gunnery tests and were better qualified than some of the other pilots who were available.
Lt. Norris selected the 45th PS P-36 that Lawrence had readied. As ground crews assisted the pilots into their planes, Lt. Norris, a small man, found that his parachute harness was too large. He got out of the P-36 and ran to the nearby parachute truck to swap.
Quietly watching the drama unfold was 2nd Lt. Gordon H. Sterling Jr., the 46th PS assistant flight engineer. Gordon had passed his flight tests but had not progressed as rapidly as the other pilots had in formation and gunnery. He saw that other P-36s were beginning to taxi out and that the P-36 Norris intended to fly was going to be left behind. The immediate need for a complete formation spurred Sterling to action.
He climbed into the idling plane, determined to fight to the finish. He gave his watch to the crew chief, Staff Sgt. Turner, and said, "Give this to my mother! I'm not coming back!"
Sterling had scheduled an afternoon date with his fiancee, 2nd Lt. Ada M. "Peggy" Olsson, a nurse at nearby Schofield Barracks Station Hospital. The Japanese attack canceled it.
Lawrence remembered, "As I ran back to where 'my' plane was parked, the flight of P-36s was just taking off and roared over my head. The crew chief said, 'Sir, Lt. Sterling took it!' and then gave a apologetic shrug as if to say, `What could I do?"'
KANEOHE NAVAL AIR STATION
Sanders' P-36 flight had just taken off from Wheeler Field, west of the Koolau Mountains, when nine Zeros in the second wave strike, launched from the carrier Soryu, strafed Kaneohe NAS-home of the long-range patrol bombers on Oahu's eastern shore. Each Shotai (flight) of three Zeros made three runs across the target. The second Shotai, led by Lt. (j.g.) Iyozo Fujita, completed its strafing and formed up with its Buntaicho (squadron leader), Lt. Fusata Iida, to await the third Shotai. The defensive fire from Kaneohe is noted in the Soryu Kodochosho (combat report) as "fierce."
Fujita saw that lida's Zero was streaming fuel. At 0912, Fujita recalled, "Iida turned and saluted me, then pointed to his mouth and shook his head, meaning `no more fuel.' Then he pointed to himself, and then straight down. He waved Sayonara, made a sharp turn and dived." lida crashed near family housing on the station. Unfortunately, no photos exist of this crash site.
As second-in-command, Fujita signaled a new formation with himself as lead with Iida's two wingmen forming a left echelon. Just at that moment, Fujita noted a new arrival: a Zero from the carrier Hiryu.
BELLOWS FIELD
While the rest of the Hiryu Zero formation strafed Bellows Field-a new Army Air Corps facility just south of Kaneohe NAS, where the 44th PS was temporarily based for gunnery training-the third Shotai, led by POlc Tsuguo Matsuyama with his wingman, POlc Toshio Makinoda, was assigned to prevent any aircraft from getting airborne. His Shotai was short one plane. Matsuyama's third wingman had had engine trouble on launch and returned safely to the Hiryu. Matsuyama caught 2nd Lt. George Whiteman's P-40B just as it cleared the ground. Caught at slow speed, with his landing gear still down, Whiteman didn't have a chance; he crashed on the beach. Whiteman AFB, Missouri, is named in his memory.
While the two Zeros were occupied with Whiteman, 2nd Lt. Samuel Bishop was able to get his P-40B off the ground and stay low until he was away from the field. Matsuyama, however, saw him wave-hopping over the ocean and dived down behind him, strafing his airplane. Bishop was wounded in the leg and crashed into the water but was able to swim to shore. Gaining altitude, Matsuyama located the formation from Soryu. As he was low on ammunition, this was a welcome sight.
INTO THE FIGHT
Describing the P-36 flight's actions, Squadron Commander Lew Sanders wrote, "We made a downwind takeoff, circled and headed east. We used maximum climb to reach the overcast, which we entered over the east side of the field. I flew on instruments and came out over the clouds about a mile east of Bellows Field Sanders saw the Soryu Zeros reassembling above Kaneohe Bay, but he did not see the Hiryu Zeros strafing at Bellows. "... from the actions of the enemy planes, I believe that they had seen us." However, Fujita had changed his course to allow Matsuyama to join and did not know the P-36s were in the area.
It was while gaining altitude to pounce on Fujita's formation that Sanders first realized that Sterling was flying in Norris' P-36. There was no time for any other action except to change the formation to protect Sterling. Sanders directed his wingman, Rasmussen, to be wingman to Thacker.
Sanders wrote, "I rocked my wings, and Lt. Thacker pulled up beside me. I pointed down. He pulled out wide and also looked and came back in on me and nodded his head 'yes.' I also turned to Sterling, pointed down, held up one finger and pointed to myself to indicate that I would take the number-one man in the enemy string."
Thacker also remembers that the Japanese planes were above Kaneohe Bay, where Fujita was expecting the final three Zero strafers to join him. Fujita logged the arrival time at 0915. However, it was the arrival of Lew Sanders with his formation of four P-36s that stunned the six Zeros.
On the first pass, Sanders attacked the lead plane, flown by Fujita. He began a slow pull-up to the right and then increased it sharply, stalled and fell out of Sanders' view. Rasmussen, on Thacker's left wing, reported that Fujita was "put out of action at once," and Sanders later was credited with the victory. Fujita's two wingmen made no effort to keep up with his turn to the right but made half-rolls to the left. Sterling attacked Fujita's number-three wingman on the starboard side, P02c Takashi Okamoto, who took two hits.
This initial action broke up the Japanese formation. Low on ammunition, the Hiryu Zero flown by POlc Tsuguo Matsuyama dived away from the combat. The remaining Soryu Zeros split into two concentric, counterclockwise circles. Thacker's guns jammed during his attack on Fujita's portside wingman; POlc Sosaburo Takahashi and Rasmussen had gun problems, too. Rasmussen's .30-caliber jammed, and the .50 continued to fire-a runaway. Before his .50-caliber ran out of ammunition, Rasmussen took potshots at two Zeros flown by POlc Takeshi Atsumi and PO2c Saburo Ishii on the inner circle.
Even though Rasmussen had seen Fujita fall toward earth, Fujita was not out of action. His stall had helped him reverse course and come around clockwise, heading straight for Rasmussen. Fujita said, "When I stopped diving and raised the cowl of my plane, I saw an enemy fighter's nose in front of me. I did not think I could avoid the collision any more, so I made up my mind to ram the plane." Rasmussen found himself looking directly into the nose of the oncoming Zero that appeared prepared to ram him. Fujita added, "Then, the P-36 raised its nose to avoid the collision and showed its 'stomach.' I shot enough bullets into its stomach. The P-36 fell at once." Rasmussen dodged the Zero and rejoined Thacker.
When Sanders broke away from Fujita after the initial attack, he gained 2,000 feet of altitude, turned back toward the combat and saw Sterling behind Okamoto, firing. Sanders immediately knew that Sterling was in serious trouble because Fujita was now on Sterling's tail and closing fast. With Fujita firing at him, Sterling forgot about Okamoto's Zero and increased the dive angle. Sanders had his throttle to the stop and latched onto Fujita's tail, but he was too far away and too late. Fujita got hits all over Sterling's airplane, and it began to smoke. Fire was streaming from the aircraft as it dived through the cloudbank straight into the bay. Sanders began to register hits on Fujita's airplane, which was badly damaged. Their race for the cloudbank saved both Okamoto and Fujita and ended the action.
Sanders recalled, "Just as I closed in, he [Fujita] got a burst at Sterling, whose plane burst into flames. Four of us then went into a dive: the Japanese in front [Okamoto]; then Sterling, firing at him; then another Japanese [Fujita], and then me. We plunged into the overcast that way. I was some distance behind, and when I came out, there was no sign of the other planes. The way they had been going, they couldn't have pulled out, so it was obvious that all three went into the sea." Later, Japanese records would show that only Sterling crashed. Not knowing that, Sanders gave Sterling a victory credit over Okamoto.
Trying to get his guns charged, Thacker had circled three times when he saw Sterling's dive. Rasmussen, too, watched the P-36 go down through the cloudbank and into the bay. At Kaneohe NAS, the sailors--unaware that it was a P-36-cheered the demise of another Japanese plane and reported a "victory."
At that moment, the third Soryu Shotai arrived. P02c Jiro Tanaka-a wingman-attacked Thacker from the side. Thacker says, "A 20mm explosive shell had fractured my tailwheel hydraulic line. That, and other minor damage to the plane by small calibers ... I smelled hydraulic fluid in the cockpit, so I quickly ducked under some clouds and left the scene." P02c Tanaka put in a victory claim on the assumption he had shot Thacker down.
Rasmussen saw Tanaka coming across his nose. His diary says, "I came up on the belly of one and raked it from nose to aft." He added, "I did not see the craft I shot actually crash, but he was smoking." Rasmussen put in an "uncertain" for it that was later confirmed. Tanaka, however, had not been shot down.
Later, Tanaka told Fujita that he had had a close scare when his wing caught fire from a Kaneohe antiaircraft incendiary bullet. He went into a dive to crash into a target, but the dive extinguished the flames. Tanaka counted nine hits to his plane from Kaneohe AA fire and from Rasmussen's machine guns.
Phil Rasmussen recalled, "At almost the same instant, I was hit by two 20mm explosive cannon; one, in the radio compartment behind my head, shattered the canopy above me. The other, in the tail section, severed my rudder cable and blew off my tailwheel. In addition, I was stitched with 7.7mm bullets. Having hardly any control over the aircraft and scared as hell, I popped into a cloud, struggled to stabilize the plane and headed for Wheeler.
"I touched the top of my head to see how badly I was injured. I was not wearing a helmet-only earphones. To my relief, I found only shredded Plexiglas from the canopy mixed into my hair."
Rasmussen had been hit by both Shotaicho (flight leader) POlc Kiichi Oda and his other wingman, P03c Takeo Takashima. Takashima's Zero was hit five times during the attack. Neither pilot made a victory claim for that day.
Fujita fled north with Iida's two wingmen, POlc Takeshi Atsumi and PO2c Saburo Ishii. His aircraft damaged by Sanders' bullets, Fujita could not follow them as they swung west toward the rendezvous northwest of Kaena Point. He watched helplessly as the two Soryu Zeros were attacked by more P-36s along the north shore.
Second Lt. Harry W. Brown, 47th PS from Haleiwa Field, and 2nd Lt. Malcolm "Mike" Moore, 46th PS from Wheeler, were flying the aircraft that attacked these Soryu Zeros. Moore attacked Ishii but was chased by Atsumi. Brown hit Atsumi and, years later, both Fujita and Brown wrote that they saw Atsumi's plane with a "big fire." Brown last saw it headed west of Kaena Point. Mike Moore only considered Ishii a "probable," yet Ishii never returned to the Soryu. Both Zeros were recently found where they crashed, in the channel between Kauai and Niihau islands.
Fujita set course directly for the Soryu. "I found three Aichi D3As [Vals] far away. I followed them," he said. But he was not alone. Lew Sanders "... had cruised north for a few minutes before turning south, and I leveled off. I saw an unidentified plane headed in my direction. When closer, I saw the Japanese insignia, applied full throttle and, as we closed, I did a steep climbing turn and rollout in an effort to get on his tail." Fujita refused combat yet kept an altitude advantage in case Sanders tried anything. Getting farther and farther from shore, Sanders decided to end the engagement.
Fujita slowly flew to the fleet and was joined by other aircraft from his unit. He relates, "Then, my engine started to make strange sounds. My engine must have been hit during that aerial battle. I was losing speed. My wingmen came closer to me and seemed to be worried about me. When I shook the throttle lever, the engine became normal again. I said to them that I was all right, and they seemed relieved. The engine seemed to stop again and again. I shook the throttle lever every time this happened. It was just like walking on thin ice." He arrived at 1145 (Hawaii time), "... oil pressure down to zero at the final approach, and after touchdown on the deck of the Soryu, the number-one cylinder of my engine fell down!"
AFTER THE BATTLE
In 1942, U.S. Army Air Force "Missing Air Crew Reports" (MACR) attempted to account for lost airmen. Initial coverage was extremely poor, as few units wrote MACRs during the early days of the War. In the immediate postwar era, many MACR files were written in an attempt to make up for earlier omissions. Funding, however, ran out for WW II paperwork, and the results are still not comprehensive. There isn't an MACR for Sterling.
"Missing in action" is a term used by the Casualty and Memorial Affairs Branch of the U.S. Army to establish a pay scale for a missing serviceman's next of kin. An MIA is downgraded to "body non-recoverable" (BNR) when the person is declared dead. The American Graves Registration Service's Board of Review met on April 26, 1948, to affirm the death of 2nd Lt. Gordon H. Sterling Jr. as BNR.
A further records investigation by the USAAF reported on March 7, 1949, "In view of the negative results of efforts to correlate this case with unknowns recovered from the pertinent area, it appears that Lt. Sterling was lost at sea, off the Oahu coast, as a result of enemy action, and under such circumstances as to preclude the possibility of recovery of his remains."
Phil Rasmussen, Sterling's roommate, reflects, "Gordon, to my knowledge, had no premonitions about being shot down." Gordon wrote to his parents in early November 1941, "Phil and I have decided that if either of us has to crash, we'll do it where they can pick us up so that the other can bring us home. That's a good arrangement except it's more likely to be Phil that brings me home." Phil Rasmussen is still waiting to bring Gordon home.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:50 pm 
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to answer your original question: The photo appears to show that the P-36 was painted OD green!
I have good information indicating that it appears that Lt. Sterling was lost at sea, off the Oahu coast, as a result of enemy action,. Of interest, Lew Sanders noted that the aerial battle which involved Lt. Gordon Sterling Jr's P-36 drifted south from Kaneohe across the Kaneohe NAS to Kailua Bay.

Furthermore, according to Mr. Aiken's "the P-36 which was flown by George Sterling. I have it as going down "in Kaneohe Bay, but possibly between Kailua and Kaneohe Bays". It dove straight in like you mentioned and so is probably a debris field similar to the Mokapu Avenger. Initially Sterling and Rasmussen were each credited with shooting down a Japanese aircraft. Later it was determined that both planes made it back to the carriers, although heavily damaged. Sterling was close enough to the base that he was seen going in, but far enough away that he wasn't identified as a friendly, as servicemen ashore cheered thinking it was a Japanese."

According the Kaneohe After Action Report that I have, A Japanese plane was shot down by NAS Kaneohe and crashed into Kailua Bay. The report also states that no salvage was made of this aircraft. I have found no other references regarding this wreck. It most likely crashed at a high speed and high angle so that the debris would be small pieces and spread out.
Furthermore, the Bellows Field After Action Report also mentions a plane diving at high speed into Kailua Bay. Again at the time it was believed to be a Japanese plane. It is only much later determined that the Japanese did not lose a plane in the area. SO for both NAS Kaneohe and Bellows Field personnel to have seen the plane drive into the water, the wreck must be in Kailua Bay between the two.

NOW this is where it gets interesting. An ongoing underwater survey which is being conducted by the University of Hawaii and lead by Hans Van Tilburg identified a debris field and propeller from what is believed to a WWII wreck in Kailua Bay. They made note of it, but they did not fully survey it or dive on it. They are still in the process of cataloging all the wrecks (over 1500 ships and aircraft to date) in the near shore Hawaiian Islands. The wreck that I was involved with in association with U of H was the PBY wreck in Kaneohe Bay. The PBY was fully surveyed and photographed and the report is available. Just like all projects, they require time and money and the U of H is short on both. I believe there is compelling evidence from the after action reports and eyewitness reports that a plane did dive from altitude and crash into Kailua Bay and it must be Lt. Gordon Sterling Jr's P-36!

On another side note: I personnaly searched and suba dived in Kailua Bay. I discovered the wreck of an unknown early P-40 which I'm still trying to ID. Artifacts were recovered from it and are now on display at MCBH Kaneohe. The story I wrote about it and was published in the local newspaper is also available who ever wants it.
I also went searhing for Lt. Bishops P-40 lost off Bellow Field. Amazing that another P-40 wreck was discovered off Bellows that maybe his. This wreck site also awaits further artifact recovery and identification.

The bottom line is that there are several wrecks in and around Kailua Bay and Kaneohe Bays. SOme have been identified, some not. The basic problem is that very few official records exist to account for the wrecks. It is only by recovery and identification of artifacts and through photograph surveys can they be identified. The work continues. Feel free to contact me if you have more questions.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:07 am 
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Location: Travis AFB
another photo of a P-36 wrecked at Wheeler Field. This also appears to be OD Green painted
This wreckage inside one of the bombed hangars appears to be a P-36 Hawk. (Photos courtesy Tropic Lightning Museum)
Lt. Gordon Sterling Jr's P-36 was assigned to the 46th PS
Attachment:
pwi-p-178 - Copy.jpg



Last edited by ALOHADAVE on Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:13 am 
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Just to mix it up. here is a rare prewar photo of P-36s at Bellows Field. I do not believe these are from the 46th PS.
Attachment:
P-36s_zpsf37f367a.jpg
P-36s_zpsf37f367a.jpg [ 95.5 KiB | Viewed 2298 times ]


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:26 am 
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On 1 November 1940, the 14th Pursuit Wing activated at Wheeler Field. Assigned units included the 18th Pursuit Group (Interceptor) with its 6th, 19th, 44th, 73d, and 78th Pursuit Squadrons; and the 15th Pursuit Group (Fighter) with the 45th, 46th, and 47th Pursuit Squadrons assigned initially, then augmented later by the assignment of the 72d Pursuit Squadron on 5 October 1941.

Perhaps some files exist in the National Archives at San Bruno.
It is by appointment only there, but I plan on visiting some day.

I've already searched all the records at Hickam and Wheeler.


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