Aircraft ID wanted

[Neal Nurmi]

I ran across this video on a site devoted to the backcountry of the Death Valley area in California. The canyon is called "Rainbow Canyon" and is becoming a very popular spot to watch and photograph the military do dumb things, like hammer down that canyon. From the canyon edge you're often looking down at the aircraft. Generally you see mostly F-18s, with the occasional -16 or -15. In the video, though, there is a jet with a high narrow wing. It enters the canyon at about 2 minutes 50 seconds. What is it? By the way, if you enter "Rainbow Canyon" in Google you get some pretty good stuf. There used to be some in cockpit stuff, but it seems to be gone

https://youtu.be/681lLvku458

Here is some very high quality footage shot in the same area.


https://www.youtube.com/upload

I'm very curious about the airplane in the first video...

[Lon Moer]

Alpha Jet

If you stop it at 2:49 you can really see it.

ed for screenshot

Last edited by Lon Moer on Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[quemerford]

I'd go for Alpha Jet too.

[JohnB]

Why would a presumably civil Alpha Jet be doing low level work?
Is flying that fast/low even legal for civilians?
A rich guy's joyride?
It would be thrilling to fly fast and low, but the fuel bill would be enormous...and there are the safety factors.
You better know what you are doing or you'll do a good imitation of a big hitting a windshield.

The OPs comment about the military doing "dumb" things is odd, does the public really think that way or are they just ignorant of the training required to survive in the modern battlefield?I

I've done low level stuff in a B-52 and B-1...great flights, but I wouldn't want to do it with just anyone, especially some of the guys with jet warbirds who aren't military trained.
Even with well trained military aviators low level flight can be dangerous. In my part of the world, the SUN would fly A-6s over the wheat fields...they list a few over the years including a fairly recent EA-6 crash that claimed the lives of three.

[martin_sam_2000]

Why would a presumably civil Alpha Jet be doing low level work?
Is flying that fast/low even legal for civilians?
A rich guy's joyride?


The OPs comment about the military doing "dumb" things is odd, does the public really think that way or are they just ignorant of the training required to survive in the modern battlefield?I

.

2 points.

1. A number of military contractors fly Alpha Jets. We have Discovery Air Defence here in Canada and I am sure there are a few in the U.S., so it is most likely military sanctioned flying.

2. I am not sure what the initial intent of the "dumb" comment was, but he could have meant it as hand "dumb" flying versus terrain following "smart" autopilot flying. I will leave it up to the original poster to clarify what he meant.

Sean

[Neal Nurmi]

Actually I'm fine with low altitude terrain following training flight, in theory. One of the great experiences of my life was hammering around at 250 feet on a Snowbirds Press flight, and I've been a passenger on several pylon flights (sometimes in groups of airplanes) at Reno and loved the experience. I've done a lot of very low altitude aerial photography, sometimes at 100 feet AGL and been very comfortable doing it. My concerns about this place, though, are that this is clearly not a regular training place -- this is generally just bucket list thrill seeking by the pilots. From what I've been told by a couple of military guys I know, this is just something that has become well known and they just want to try it, Most of the route is in a National Park, a major State Highway and very popular tourist stop and rest area are within a few hundred yards of of (and above) the flight path, and on a busy flight day there will be all kinds of looky loos all over those hills. One of these days one of those boys or girls in the airplanes is gonna miscalculate and splatter a fuel filled f-18 on those walls, and barbecue a whole bunch of tourists. It's also F***ing loud, and not a pleasant National Park experience. This is just not a place to do this kind of stuff, IMHO.

I never would have thought of an Alpha Jet. I've vaguely heard there were a couple in the States, but never seen one.

[Randy Haskin]

One of the Alpha Jets that is doing military support out at Edwards is operated by Greg Morris, who used to run Gauntlet Warbirds out of the Chicago area and at least used to be a WIX'er a while back.

Now called Gauntlet Aerospace and doing jet stuff:

http://www.gauntletaerospace.com/

[mike furline]

Why would a presumably civil Alpha Jet be doing low level work?
Is flying that fast/low even legal for civilians?
A rich guy's joyride?
It would be thrilling to fly fast and low, but the fuel bill would be enormous...and there are the safety factors.
You better know what you are doing or you'll do a good imitation of a big hitting a windshield.

https://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part91-119-FAR.shtml
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

https://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part91-117-FAR.shtml
(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

There are a few Advisory Circulars that offer some guidance for Parks/Noise Sensitive Areas.
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... C136-1.pdf
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... C-93-2.pdf
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... 91-36d.pdf

I'm guessing the fuel bill really isn't much of a concern. The more fuel you burn, the more fun you have.

[Buz]

Look I may be wrong here (after all I'm an Aussie) but isn't that area part of the airspaces around Edwards? Therefore if so would comes under a entirely different set of rules.

I recall reading an aviation photo digest page about it being called R2508 Complex which includes Rainbow Canyon, and the route through the canyon being called the Jedi Transition.

If so all perfectly legal, sound and they have to practice somewhere.

Buz

Edit: I found the link I was looking at, so added it so you can see - http://aviationphotodigest.com/a-visit- ... ow-canyon/

[mike furline]

Look I may be wrong here (after all I'm an Aussie) but isn't that area part of the airspaces around Edwards? Therefore if so would comes under a entirely different set of rules.

I recall reading an aviation photo digest page about it being called R2508 Complex which includes Rainbow Canyon, and the route through the canyon being called the Jedi Transition.

If so all perfectly legal, sound and they have to practice somewhere.

Buz

Edit: I found the link I was looking at, so added it so you can see - http://aviationphotodigest.com/a-visit- ... ow-canyon/

Excellent find. Thx for the update.

[Neal Nurmi]

"Legal" and "wise" are two very different things! There is lots of perfectly good airspace over Las Vegas, Palmdale, Tehachapi Pass, etc out there. Let them practice someplace besides a National Park.
It just makes no sense to me to have this happening in a quiet place full of tourists. I'm a veteran and very much an airplane person, but I also love my National Parks and just hate to see them F##cked over all the time...

[Buz]

Neal

Concur with your thoughts over national parks - however provisions are already in place. Here's something else I found (as you can see multiple considerations are in place)

https://www.edwards.af.mil/Portals/50/d ... 145806-570

Regards

Buz

[Lon Moer]

I'm bumping this thread because I stumbled across this video on the YT.
The first 11+ minutes are boring silly lights in the night sky in the desert - but after that there is some JEDI transition footage.
Mostly its F-18s but at the end they show and talk about the Alpha Jet flying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFo7Ov2hz2w

Screenshot_2018-12-02 Secret Military Ops and JEDI Transition - UFO Seekers © S1E9 - YouTube.jpg (5.44 KiB) Viewed 1716 times

[6trn4brn]

Mike Furline: "The more fuel you burn, the more fun you have." Oh my...I have said that a number of times when I am asked why I bought an '18 Ram Express with the Hemi

Sorry for the sidetrack...back to your regular program

[vernicator]

http://www.aerotechnews.com/edwardsafb/2018/08/06/412th-og-chasing-options-for-test-support-with-alpha-jet/?feedsort=related

Sorry, catching up on old posts posts. That was a civilian Alpha Jet operated by Advanced Training Systems International (ATSI) which is now owned by Top Aces