Warbird Information Exchange

Sure all things to be considered and most likely the case. But in the past when the NHC and Mother NAVY have gotten together good things have happen in the name history. A' La USS Monitor turret through the talented efforts of USS Grasp and crew. The Lexington aircrafts' remarkable state of preservation and historical significance combined with the revelation that they are not considered war graves, I would not be surprised if some ideas are being floated around at NHC HQ



Shay
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Semper Fortis

I trust you. The Navy? Not as much.

Please note that it has been reported that personnel of both MDSU-1 and MDSU-2 were responsible for tearing PBM-5 BuNo 59172 in two during training exercises in 1996. As mentioned, I would personally prefer that the EXPERTS of the Navy's MDSU's gain their expertise practicing their trade on historically-less-significant airframes.

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/u ... 59172.html

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

it is dud torpedo from DD Phelps

Dan

That was 22 years ago, I'm sure lessons have been learned. This was ultimately a training evolution for Active and Naval Reserve components of the MDSU Teams. But to believe that Navy personnel did not try their hardest or not care enough to take the proper precautions about a piece of Navy history is a little disingenuous. "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry."

To be completely fair, when considering the PBM's large & unique design, condition after decades of tampering, attitude of the wreck site and Time!, I think it was overly optimistic to believe that it would've be recovered and righted unscathed. Also it would be equally unrealistic not to expect that when the PBM initially set down on the lake bed upside down, with all the aircraft's weight and pressure on the higher and less robust empennage, there would not be some structural damage.

That being the case, like Glacier Girl, hopefully the smaller and sturdier single engine aircraft of the Lexington will withstand the recovery better. The real challenge will be the depth and pressure. 2 miles is a long way down. That's a long distance to coordinate a recovery remotely. Not to mention the weight of 2 miles of cable must be tremendous. At that pressure float bags may be problematic, especially with O2. Perhaps with oil or diesel, but i'm not sure Mr Allen and others would allow that due to the environmental impact should things go "awry".

Regardless, it will take a severe amount of mechanical engineering and planning to come up with a positive solution that will result in recovered and further undamaged aircraft for display. Personally I'd like to see them preserved and displayed as found. As well I'd like to see Lady Lex's stern plate and bell recovered.

Best of Luck and l look forward to further news.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

Thanks for the verification Dakoblue, as I noted, I was agreeing with Mark that it was one of 2 duds from Phelps

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

There are apparently rumblings that the NMNA is "very interested" in these aircraft- I know a TBD has been at the absolute top of their wish list for almost 30 years now, probably longer, and I can absolutely guarantee you that we aren't the only ones seeing stars in our eyes at the utterly remarkable state of preservation of these aircraft.

All it takes is cubic money.

Others have already said it, but I'll echo it- a public/private partnership is the most realistic way forward in retrieving these aircraft. As much as I love the TBD, I would be first in line with a pitchfork if someone tried to restore one of these airframes to airworthy condition- they meet every qualification for preservation as opposed to airworthy restoration, as each of them is incredibly historically significant in their own right. Now, if all seven are retrieved, I would not be opposed to seeing the least damaged one sympathetically restored to how it appeared the day of the battle, but that's a conversation for much, much further down the road.

Obviously I'm not privy to conversations and decisions at the NHC, but I'll bet there are a lot of folks having some VERY significant conversations about right now in the halls of the NMNA and NHC. For now, let's bask in this and wait to see what else the team has to show us... remember, there are still 3 other TBDs and 3 SBDs which we haven't even seen yet.

Cheers,

Lynn

Hopefully a certain group we're all too familiar with who's never accomplished anything other than to muck things up for others and shoot their mouth off will stay out of this, but I doubt it.

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Defending Stearmans on WIX since Jeff started badmouthing them back in 2005.

Hopefully they stepped on someone's last nerve when they co-oped with the Navy on the Jaluit TBD survey...

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

Unreal some of the knuckleheads on facebook that are rudely hounding the guys on the 'RV Petrel' for more photos and video faster and with more precision. Jesus-H-C give them some time. They don't have to be doing any of this for us you know. Disclaimer: I'm directing this post to those who are following this thread from facebook and other sites that know about and are following WIX's conversation. Everyone here on WIX and most on many other facebook pages are being considerate, but there's always a few boneheads who just can't seem to get it and feel the need to be idiots. One guy is actually annoyed that Paul Allen and the guys on the RV Petral don't have a full time PR person in charge of feeding us photo updates 24/7. FWIW I've been in contact with the RV Petral folks and they've got plenty more coming in due time. Just hang on people. We all want to see as much as possible as soon as possible, but please be respectful of those guys. This is their gift to us and Paul Allen and his group really don't owe us anything. I'll post anything that I see as soon as I see it for those who don't do facebook. You'll get it here on WIX asap.

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[Thread title is ridiculous btw]

Bless you, Mark!

Bless Paul Allen & Crew too -- those guys and gals are FREAKIN' AWESOME!!!

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Cheers,
Kurt Maurer
League City, Texas

PIC, Ford 6600 pulling Rhino batwing up and down the runway

Hummmmm....how many years did it took for Glacier Girl????

- From discovery
- To reccovery
- To flight.....(or display in this case)

May be dead before I see it.....

Anything can be done. Just takes time and $.....and the will to do it!

BTW...FuC%$#$I?&?*&n%?&$?%@ amazing.....

how about this
https://books.google.pl/books?id=pouHCw ... se&f=false

That's a good theory as well, but I'm leaning towards Gayler simply because when there is no concrete evidence, one must go with the best of all possible data that can be determined as close to fact. The closeup photo of the F4F's cockpit area IMHO shows pretty clearly the letters 'G' and 'R'. This is all I have for proof so I'll have to believe it was Gayler's (at least in name)

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[Thread title is ridiculous btw]

Another mosaic just posted by the 'RV Petrel' folks

"We try our best to make sure everything we post is accurate but in the case of the previously posted mosaic I made a mistake in the measurement of the Bow and Stern from the main portion of the wreck. It is only 500 meters or .26 of a nautical mile and not the 1 nautical mile as stated."

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[Thread title is ridiculous btw]

Can someone here educate me on how the sinking of the Lexington happened? Brief overview is fine, but what I was trying to understand was a couple of questions:
The aircraft are separate from the main body of the wreck. Usually the main body of the wreck, being heavy, is where the sinking happened. Debris fields spread out when the depth is huge. So did the airplanes flutter down after the Lex rolled over? Or were they specifically ditched before the Lex was sunk by the torpedoes?
Was there any time to remove aircraft from the Lex after it started burning? Were flight ops cancelled because of the pitch of the deck?
How long after the battle was over was the Lex sunk? Did it sit there floating for a bit or was it pretty immediate?
The Navy has been very specific about the aircraft themselves not being war graves, though the Lex is considered to be one. Was there not an ability following the battle to remove bodies from the Lex?
Just curious, and know that someone here knows the answer to these questions. No rush, just things that I have been wondering about.
kevin

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FOUND the elusive DT-built B-24! Woo-hoo!!!