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When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:14 pm 
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KiwiZac
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Hi all,
In a couple of old posts in various places I've read about the possible resurrection of not only the RB-51 but also Gary Levitz and Bill Rogers' P-51R Miss Ashley II.

There was a bit of discussion started by Vlado a while back [url=http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44448]here[/quote], and the AAFO HangarTalk racing forum has bits and pieces...including suggestion that John Muszala II has the RB-51 parts for a racer project.

Does anyone know anything about either of these?

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Last edited by Zac Yates on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:19 pm 
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I've heard the same rumors about these aircraft and while I do not have any inside information my gut tells me that the chances are very slim. Like it or not I think it is pretty obvious that the days are numbered for racing modified warbirds. Unless you wanted to recreate these airplanes simply for the purpose of nostalgia, much like the current attempt to revive Tsunami, I don't think there will be much reason for them in the not too distant future. It pains me to say so as the RB-51 is one of my favorite airplanes and one that I missed seeing by just a couple of years. I would dearly love to see it recreated. But, you never know!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:30 am 
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KiwiZac wrote:
...including suggestion that John Muszala II has the RB-51 parts for a racer project.
I thought John Marlin used the wings for his Martin Baker project? The vertical stabilizer and canopy are still in Chino. Oh, and the aircraft identity has been with a flying Mustang in Chino for a very long time.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:39 pm 
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There was discussion of a new Red Baron on another forum. Jim Harley had this to say;

John Muszala II would love to build a Baron...even has a stash of parts...but needs cubic $ to get it going... ...Those guys were part of the original "Chino Kid" clan and Sr. worked on and flew the Baron. They have ties to her, and...parts. Not a whole lot but enough to get going. It needs major funding...but believe me, the interest and the spark is there with the right people...

I read that as they have parts for another Red Baron, not necessarily from the Red Baron.

I'm pretty sure it was also Jim Harley that posted a picture (on Instagram maybe?) of a Miss Ashley project stored away in an unknown location

As much as I'd love to see both of these projects completed, I doubt it will happen. -Happy to be proven wrong though!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:29 pm 
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What happened to the Martin Baker replica project? Also. for my money as much as I loved the RB-51, I'd buy a late SPitfire project with similar engine and prop. A few of those projects around.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:53 pm 
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I assume that what Pacific Fighters might have is the same "Red Baron" parts/project that Brad Sherk had in the early 2000's, which prior to that had been with Terry Rogers. I remember Brad Sherk had the project along with a Griffon engine and counter-rotating prop unit from a Shackleton, with a good amount of parts from the original "Red Baron" Mustang. Brad also had a P-51B project. Some years ago, I recall reading that Brad sold everything, and if it all went to Pacific Fighters, that would also make sense as the fuselage section that was being advertised as part of the RAF Mustang III FB206 project for sale by Pacific Fighters back in 2015 looked to me to be identical to the P-51B fuselage section that Brad Sherk had/had made.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:46 pm 
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I just saw photos on John Muszala II's Facebook page, posted about an hour ago, of some large chunks of RB-51 and a set of spare canopy/windscreen glazing that arrived not long ago. I think they're the Brad Sherk parts. Lots of interested and exciting replies including from members of the Maloney and Tobin clans!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:56 pm 
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Well, I walked through the Red Baron wreckage about an hour after watching the crash and there weren't a lot of large pieces left to pick up.
:? :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:54 am 
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They're larger than I expected :lol:

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"It's his plane, he spent the money to restore it, he can do with it what he wants. I will never understand what's hard to comprehend about this." - kalamazookid, 20/08/2013
"The more time you spend around warbirds the sooner you learn nothing, is simple." - JohnB, 24/02/22


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:40 am 
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I think a few minor parts from the "Red Baron", including the original canopy, went to the National Air and Space Museum (NASM). I saw a small display at the Garber Facility, maybe circa the late 1980s or early 90s.

It is interesting hearing this project called a "replica" - why not an original "Red Baron II"?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:21 am 
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old iron wrote:
I think a few minor parts from the "Red Baron", including the original canopy, went to the National Air and Space Museum (NASM). I saw a small display at the Garber Facility, maybe circa the late 1980s or early 90s.

It is interesting hearing this project called a "replica" - why not an original "Red Baron II"?


I think the plan is Red Baron II, if it happens. I imagine with all the new improvements/technology to air racing since RB crashed they would have plenty of new ideas to incorporate. Especially a facility like Pacific Fighters with the brains and skill they have.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:00 pm 
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I think the era of unlimited air racing is approaching an eventual conclusion. I'm more interested in seeing the racers for their history than their actual race performance. I wish "Galloping Ghost" had been saved as a piece of history rather than risked in the Unlimited Gold Class Race. Mr. Leeward was also a super neat guy to talk with.
That being said, maybe there is financial energy in the cosmos somewhere to build up one more unlimited piston racer type aircraft.An aircraft that would set all the piston records once and for all. My suggestion would be a P-51A fuselage with redeisgned canopy and glass. P-51H tail except with a moving horizontal from an F-86, Citation, or some other small jet. Wings P-51H but lightened and maybe update the airfoil and shorten, but add winglets. Scratch built landing gear and other components. Engine, well there are many fine Merlin and Griffon variants that would be acceptable. Prop blades experimental of course.
My guess is that what keeps the Mustang racers from going any faster is the wing airfoil , the high drag wing root areas, and the fixed horizontal stabilizer.
I got a couple flights in a Piaggio P180 last year. An amazing prop driven aircraft with only 1600 pounds of thrust. I suggest they look at it's airfoil, and other aerodynamics.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:41 pm 
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old iron wrote:
I think a few minor parts from the "Red Baron", including the original canopy, went to the National Air and Space Museum (NASM). I saw a small display at the Garber Facility, maybe circa the late 1980s or early 90s.

It is interesting hearing this project called a "replica" - why not an original "Red Baron II"?


Do you know which parts went to the NASM? I've been to NASM several times and don't remember seeing any RB-51 parts. I believe what you say, but I'm just wondering if the parts are in storage up there?

Also, for as long as I can remember, these RB-51 parts have been displayed at Planes of Fame in Chino:

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:55 pm 
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marine air wrote:
I think the era of unlimited air racing is approaching an eventual conclusion. I'm more interested in seeing the racers for their history than their actual race performance. I wish "Galloping Ghost" had been saved as a piece of history rather than risked in the Unlimited Gold Class Race. Mr. Leeward was also a super neat guy to talk with.
That being said, maybe there is financial energy in the cosmos somewhere to build up one more unlimited piston racer type aircraft.An aircraft that would set all the piston records once and for all. My suggestion would be a P-51A fuselage with redeisgned canopy and glass. P-51H tail except with a moving horizontal from an F-86, Citation, or some other small jet. Wings P-51H but lightened and maybe update the airfoil and shorten, but add winglets. Scratch built landing gear and other components. Engine, well there are many fine Merlin and Griffon variants that would be acceptable. Prop blades experimental of course.
My guess is that what keeps the Mustang racers from going any faster is the wing airfoil , the high drag wing root areas, and the fixed horizontal stabilizer.
I got a couple flights in a Piaggio P180 last year. An amazing prop driven aircraft with only 1600 pounds of thrust. I suggest they look at it's airfoil, and other aerodynamics.

I hate to admit it, but I think you are correct. I don't see Air Racing lasting longer than another 5 to 7 years at the most in Reno. Unless RARA is able to secure more sponsorship and/or is able to garner more attention from Unlimited race owners, I see it on the decline. The city of Reno is apathetic about air racing. This is evident through their lack of financial support/sponsorship.

Next year, the only "fast" Unlimited Gold that might race would be Strega. Some of the Unlimited Gold racers who no longer compete:

- Voodoo
- Rare Bear
- Dago Red
- Czech Mate

Strega is an unknown at this point. Tiger has threatened retirement many times before. Fortunately for us, he is still racing Strega.

Even if Strega continues racing, it is still some 50-60 mph or so faster than the next contender. With no competition, interest will wane, imo.

I hope I'm wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:59 pm 
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That's the word on Czech Mate, it finished second last year.....

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