History Channel AE critical summary

[Steve Birdsall]

I've got a question too . . .

Why has everybody assumed the two people in question are even "Caucasians", and that the seated figure is a woman?

There's simply not enough detail to be sure of anything and the "History" channel should be condemned for screening such a flimsy, fact-free waste of time.

[zorro9]

Steve:

Hi! fm this side of the pond!

Good point! No we do not know who those 2 folks in question are or the seated woman!! Unless we get the negative of that picture the questions will remain again!! The pics of the subjects or the aircraft are just too low resolution for a ID detail.

Now, it looks like the face recognition guy of the History Channel did a flip photo to match with the poss Cpt. Fred Noonan. The resemblance in this case is pretty close except that he parted his hair fm L--->R in real life.

Was the Japanese photo in the travel book exposed in reverse mode??? How do we go about a verification of the book publishing year w/o seeing the book???

BTW your colleague & AE Researcher Mr. David Billings of AU may be in the ball park of the search area. His theory is that AE did turn around to home base as the only option in the middle of the radio TX confusion over several hrs. He claims, based in Lockheed data that AE had enough fuel to land near Port Moresby, New Guinea area. He also has in writing the engine tag with the C/N of AE Electra, poss a jewel find of an Australian patrol in the area. The last I heard of him he was getting ready to dig in the area.c. 2012 0r so. Any more news about him?? Tks in advance.

[Dan K]

...BTW your colleague & AE Researcher Mr. David Billings of AU may be in the ball park of the search area. His theory is that AE did turn around to home base as the only option in the middle of the radio TX confusion over several hrs. He claims, based in Lockheed data that AE had enough fuel to land near Port Moresby, New Guinea area. He also has in writing the engine tag with the C/N of AE Electra, poss a jewel find of an Australian patrol in the area. The last I heard of him he was getting ready to dig in the area.c. 2012 0r so. Any more news about him?? Tks in advance.

David Billings revisited the area in June 2017. This link should get you up to speed.

https://earharttruth.wordpress.com/tag/david-billings/

[Steve Birdsall]

It seems to me that there are several theories about what happened to Amelia Earhart, and the various theories have a common thread: people are moulding and manipulating the so-called evidence to fit their theories. That's a real trap and one I've fallen into myself.

Frankly, I doubt there's enough detail in that photo for any genuine "facial recognition expert" to work with.

[Russ Matthews]

What it actually exist is a copy of the page in Tokio, Japan ..but what about the book?

The book, “Umino Seimeisen Wagananyou No Sugata: (Nanyo Gunto Shashincho)” which translates as “The Life Line of the Sea, My South Sea Memoir (South Sea Archipelago Photo Book)” is in the collection of the National Diet Library of Japan (basically, their equivalent to the USA's Library of Congress). The entire thing, cover to cover (not just a single page), was digitized some 8 years ago (30 September 2009) and made available to the public online through the official website ...

http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/1223403/99?itemId=info%3Andljp%2Fpid%2F1223403&contentNo=99&__lang=en

I'm certain that you could study the physical item in Tokyo if you were still so inclined.

But, barring an elaborate conspiracy, I think the evidence is overwhelmingly clear that the Jaluit dock photo was taken pre-October, 1935 and has absolutely no bearing on the disappearance of Amelia Earhart.

[zorro9]

TBD:

Hi! Thank you so much for the such a valuable info & data!!

Plz point me to the page that says the Japanese Travel Book was published c. Oct 1935.

P.S Do not speak/write Japanese but I will find someone in here that will translate it for me. DK tks for D. Billings link! Tks in advance.

Last edited by zorro9 on Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[airnutz]

Plz point me to the page that says the Japanese Travel Book was published c. Oct 1935.

P.S Do not speak/write Japanese but I will find someone in here that will translate it for me.

It's in the 5th column of the Metadata sheet to the left of the displayed book...under Publication Date!

[zorro9]

Air Nuts:

Hi! ...the magic of the www!!

So, according to what you read it was indeed published in c. Oct 1935??? Will you plz post the link or a picture of it?? What do the Japanese captions on the left & bottom of the page says??

p.s ....now the $64,000 question is: ... How the image History Channel image expert happened to find the striking face similarities to Capt. Fred J. Noonan????

[airnutz]

Air Nuts:

Hi! ...the magic of the www!!

So, according to what you read it was indeed published in c. Oct 1935??? Will you plz post the link or a picture of it?? What do the Japanese captions on the left & bottom of the page says??

p.s ....now the $64,000 question is: ... How the image History Channel image expert happened to find the striking face similarities to Capt. Fred J. Noonan????

Go to TBDudes link he posted just before your previous post. It's there. Get a translator to help you.

[old iron]

Discussion on this forum contains some translation of the page with the Jaluit wharf photo.

https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/busy-time-for-project-amelia-earhart-flyer.572498/page-8#post-4321596

[zorro9]

Old Iron:

Hi! Tks for the discussion link about the Jaluit Harbor date pic of c. 1935!!

1. When the POC Japanese Historian 1st came up with his counterpoint about the History Channel B/W photo he cited a Pg #113 on a Japanese travel Book. Now it appears to be page #44.

2. 2 Different names come -up as book authors. One of them is Masaaki Nishino c. 1935.

3. Now, the Japanese book dates ranges fm c. Oct 1935, 1937 (NARA/Photo??) & some as far as Oct 5, 1955!!!

We still do not know who has the original photo or negative. Could the relatives help with some little neg boxes stashed somewhere in Japan/Palau Islands?? How about getting copies of some other books copies and & see what dates are they showing?? There seems to be a variety of ways to date Japanese Books c. 1935-37 or so!!

p.s The B/w is still an intriguing photo specially when 2 sources claim to have the real thing!!!!

[Steve Birdsall]

The dispute about the authenticity of the Japanese book is just muddying the waters - there is no credible challenge to the fact it was printed in 1935.

There is zero evidence that anybody in the photo is a "Caucasian". There is not enough detail of any of the faces to make a positive identification and no genuine "expert" would claim otherwise.

I really shouldn't add to all the speculation, but the US versions of the photograph were probably included in a file of similar photos in an effort to get as much information as possible about Japanese installations in the Pacific. I seem to recall stories about Japanese tourists taking photos around Pearl Harbor before the war, and British intelligence called on members of the public who had recently holidayed in Germany for similar reasons.

[Russ Matthews]

1. When the POC Japanese Historian 1st came up with his counterpoint about the History Channel B/W photo he cited a Pg #113 on a Japanese travel Book. Now it appears to be page #44.

The photo is on page 44. It was always on page 44. There is a "44" printed on the page itself in the lower left corner. If the blogger cited "113" he was mistaken.

3. Now, the Japanese book dates ranges fm c. Oct 1935, 1937 (NARA/Photo??) & some as far as Oct 5, 1955!!!

The book is copyright 1935. It was always 1935. The 1937 date is Les Kinney's fantasy, his wishful thinking about the photographic print held at NARA with no specific date citation. 1955 as quoted in the discussion thread provided by old iron comes from a faulty interpretation by poster WoPV of the kanji script, which is later thoroughly (and correctly) translated by KQ6XA as October 5, 1935.

I'll break down the kanji for you here:

昭和 = Showa
十 = ten
年= year

十 = ten
月 = month

五 = 5
日 = day

印 = mark
刷 = printing

Showa 10 is 1935 not 1955.

The book (and the Jaluit dock photo) was printed in 1935. There's no reason for people in Palau to dig through their old negatives unless they want to take up scrapbooking.

[zorro9]

TBD:

Hi! You do have a point about the NARA B/W photo found with the "Confidential" stamp in the back but no dates??? Did someone miss something???

The photo itself can not be dismissed at this point! Luv to see another copy of the same book & see what dates the stamps show.

Any word of the History Channel folks about the comments on their photograph?? Smithsonian Folks, National Geographic??

Four items seem to stand out when you look at this intriguing B/W photograph:

1. The striking resemblance to Capt Fred J. Noonan & the findings of the H/C Image expert relating to his face features found in the original photo.

2. The back of a female Caucasian poss AE glancing at her aircraft nearby.

3. Something that looks like an aircraft on a barge near a Japanese ship originally misidentified by the H/C folks

4. The lack of Japanese guards in the area

p.s Do we know for sure that this place is the Jaluit Atoll,... one of the many islands in the Marshall Island chain?? or perhaps some other island nearby??

[Steve Birdsall]

I think you're clutching at straws . . .

1. I don't see any "striking" resemblance to anybody in the photo - you can't even see the entire face. The History Channel "expert" seems to be like one of those "experts" you find shilling for one side or the other in court cases.

2. Why are you so positive that is a "female Caucasian" and not an Asian with short dark hair and a white shirt?

3. That doesn't look much like an aircraft to me. There is no real evidence at all that there is an "aircraft" anywhere in the photo.

4. Why would there be Japanese guards on the jetty in 1935 (or earlier)?

Sadly this "discussion" about the book is providing a smokescreen for History Channel.